Andrew Jenkins (Traitors) on Surviving Death and Rebuilding Life

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I let my trauma to find me for
probably 24 years.

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Meet Andrew Jenkins.
Some of you will know him from

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the Traitors UK season 2
finalist, but what most people

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don't know is that he was
pronounced dead at 21 after a

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devastating car crash.
I, I don't want to.

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I, I, I'm an honest person.
Goodbye.

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So I didn't want to.
I don't want to manipulate

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people so things not bad lost
myself worth my confidence.

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You know I I failure.
I thought it was a bad thing

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growing up because you got
emotionally audience especially

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it is upset or anger rather
trying to suppression and push

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it up or something really
happens by doing that that makes

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it stronger and stronger and
stronger nearly reconfirm their

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emotion.
So doctors told you at some

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point as well, from what I've
understood, that you wouldn't be

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able to walk again?
Keep working hard, he believes

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he will achieve anything he
likes wants.

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This is the story of his
physical and mental comeback and

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what it really takes to rebuild
a life.

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Andrew, it's going to be pretty
easy to introduce you because

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everyone's going to know you
from The Traitors.

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And The Traitors is one of the
most popular programs on

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television today, not just in
the UK.

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So that's really kicking off.
And people will know you from

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that, but not most people won't
necessarily know your back

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story.
And there is a lot to you and a

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lot has happened that has
affected you and has affected

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how you lead your life today and
how what you're doing out there

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in the world.
You've been impacted by certain

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things and I want to go through
them.

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And these are things that many
will relate to, especially as

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far as mental health is
concerned.

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But I'm going to let the story
unfold as I ask you all these

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questions because we want to get
into that brain of yours and see

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what happened.
Let's start with a very big

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moment.
You were declared dead at 21.

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Yeah.
What happened?

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I was driving my car and there
was five of us in my vehicle

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altogether.
Like my previous partner, my

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son's mother was in the
passenger seat, my best friend

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and his girlfriend were in the
back and the lady I used to work

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with in the back.
I hit a curb on the left hand

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side.
My left hand wheels were

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passenger side.
I flipped the car to the right

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hand side and I went through the
driver's window, through the

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door window.
So my legs were in the foot well

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under the steering wheel and my
top up was outside the car.

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My head and my arm.
As you can see there were

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dragging on the floor for a
couple of 100 yards.

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When the car stopped sliding, it
landed on top of me.

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So when the fire brigade, the
police in the emergency turned

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up, they told the people in the
car that I was dead.

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I had to have two blood
transfusions on the side of the

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road because I lost 6 pints of
blood.

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You've only got 8 in your body
and I lost six of them because I

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I don't go into too much detail
and I had no hair, no skin,

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nothing on top of my head at all
because I was dragging on the

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floor.
I had a big hole in my skull and

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it all, it all broke my brain.
So when the fire gate turned up,

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I had to lift the car up to get
up underneath the car to work on

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me.
So as you can imagine, it was a

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horrendous I was in a comb with
every four weeks of intensive

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care.
My, my gosh.

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Yeah, it was tough.
Did you know when this was?

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I mean, did you know what was
happening to you at any point?

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Did you, did you?
You must have you felt the curb.

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So at that point you were still
with it.

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So and then and then the lights
just went out.

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I can't remember much about the
day, to be honest with you.

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I can't remember it.
So psychologically I, I, the

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people in the car had it worse
than what I did because they saw

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horrendous things.
A previous partner, for example,

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when the car stopped sliding,
she was hanging above me by her

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seat belt looking down.
I was underneath the car and I

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was half under the car.
There's blood everywhere.

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She she's calling my name and I
wasn't answering.

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The girl sat behind me, directly
behind me, said when you were

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sliding on the tarmac, it was
like a horror film.

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There was all like blood sprayed
in my face.

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It was horrendous.
So psychologically, they

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probably went through a lot
worse.

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My family, my friends went
through worse.

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I just had to get better in a
coma.

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So I had the easy bit, to be
honest.

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But yeah.
I don't know about that.

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I mean, what an awful, awful
thing to have lived through.

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And I suppose it doesn't really.
Something like that won't ever

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leave you.
No, it doesn't.

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And I've only come to terms
really the last couple of years.

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I led my trauma to find me.
For probably 24 years my life

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was lived in a car crash.
So yeah, I see the last two

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years I've really been strong
again and using my trauma for

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good.
That would help inspire the

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people.
So doctors told you at some

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point as well, from what I've
understood, that you wouldn't be

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able to walk again?
Yeah, when I was in my coma, my

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family had called into the
hospital on three occasions to

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say he's not going to make you
through the night, come and say

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goodbye.
I got three brothers, two older

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brothers, one younger brother
and my mum and dad.

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When I started recovering then
they got told that from the

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scans they've done on me,
there's there's lots of shadows

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on my brain, which means dead
tissue.

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So I got severe brain damage.
There's this chance I'll never

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wake up, but if I do wake up,
I'm not going to recognize

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anyone, walk, talk, use my arms
and legs ever again to prepare

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for the worst.
So I woke up after 4 weeks.

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I'm another father standing up
my beds.

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I don't know where I was, what
happened.

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It was quite scary.
Lots of people everywhere, tubes

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everywhere in the hospital and
intensive care.

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So another, you know, and then
four days later the doctors came

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round and said to me, you will
never, ever going to walk again.

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And my first response was, I
guarantee I walk to this

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hospital, my mother said.
Really.

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They literally say to you, you
are not going to walk again and

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you're going, yes I will.
My mother said it's embarrassing

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that the doctor is trying to
tell you not going to walk again

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and you're you're in bed with a
tracheop through my throat there

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tubes coming out of everywhere.
You're arguing with this man

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telling me you are going to walk
again and I did.

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I proved the doctors wrong.
Well, the thing about you that I

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know is that you've got a rugby
background, you're a tough

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cookie, you know, a rugby player
is the fact that you would even

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do rugby and put yourself
through that.

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There's something in the
mentality of all rugby players.

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Was it that maybe that you were
calling in on like I can suffer

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through, I can do it.
A lot of his met brains,

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obviously having two older
brothers, having three brothers

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in total.
As you can imagine, the

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competitive rest of my household
was ridiculous and the

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testosterone and I now know I've
done a lot of studying over the

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last couple of years.
I grew up in a toxic masculinity

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environment so even though I had
no emotional support, I suppose

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growing up or My parents are
very old school.

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My dad is 82 years of age, my
mum would have been 80 but she

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passed away a couple of weeks
ago.

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But I'm.
Sorry about that.

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I know I I saw that on your
socials and I'm so sorry.

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Yeah.
It's OK far.

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Thank you for that.
No, it's so upbringing, we call

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it, It's now known as emotional
trauma.

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I don't have to say that because
it makes you sound like

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something bad happened.
Nothing bad happened.

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My parent and compassionate was
my parents now because they

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don't know how to show their
feelings and emotions in their

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generation didn't do that sort
of thing.

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So my parents never told me they
loved me to this day.

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But when it comes to the
physical side of it, because

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that's what helped me through
the accident, being strongly and

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resilient and determined.
So it's as good and bad really.

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And obviously being a rugby
backer, very competitive help

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too.
Yeah, I've got to say, you said

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toxic masculinity.
I feel like, yeah, you're right

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that in that moment it was the,
that's the sort of strength you

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need.
It was just really going to the

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core and the grit of that and
just bringing it out.

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You need to be tough in a moment
like that.

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You really do.
And that competition is a good

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thing in a moment like that.
It was, yeah.

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So physically, it helped me
massively.

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And like when somebody tells me
I can't do something in life,

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I'll do it.
I'll do it 10 times better.

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So when the doctor said I
couldn't walk again, no

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disrespect.
I know people in wheelchairs

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from different things.
But at 21 years of age, being

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super fit and healthy and
sporty, I didn't want to be in a

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wheelchair to anyone who's of
age.

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So I was determined.
I walked.

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The first time I got into bed
was scary.

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I was two months lying on my
back and they finally made me

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stand up.
They literally couldn't find my

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legs.
Really.

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But like Jelly.
It's nothing.

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I couldn't feel anything that I
might.

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I do a lot of bodybuilding
training.

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I've got lots of, I know I do a
lot of fitness.

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So mind muscle there.
I understand that.

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And the physiotherapist, I'll
pick my feet up and put one in

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front of the other for a few
days.

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I remember to walk.
Literally I couldn't remember to

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walk.
So that's crazy.

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How do you even not remember to
walk?

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How do you, from someone who's
physically as strong as you

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were, you know, a rugby player
strong?

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Like really to not be able to
even feel your feet?

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It's a strange cell.
It's a strange feeling.

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It's really, I was scared, a
little bit scared, but I knew I

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was determined.
I think in life when he wants

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something, wants something bad
enough, you see your head and

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your heart go out there and get
it.

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And there was a lot of people in
hospital died round.

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These injuries weren't that bad,
they just give up on life.

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But I didn't want to give up on
life.

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I was only 21.
I had too much to do in life.

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Gosh.
OK, so you couldn't feel your

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feet, but you started to
practice step by step and you

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started to walk again.
When you started walking again

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those steps, what was going
through your mind?

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How did it feel?
Wow, God, there's lots of things

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going through my mind.
There was obviously I was

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nervous, anxious that I'd never
be able to run or never be able

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to do sport again.
Or the walk properties.

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It was very shaky as you could
imagine, the first couple of

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days.
The first couple of weeks it was

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very shaky.
I stand on bars like the wooden

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bar, like gymnastics.
People have the parallel.

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Bars.
And then I finally echo the bars

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and after a week I stumbled a
little bit and yeah, I did.

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I was determined and I got
something I can't explain.

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Something deep inside me that
drives me out like a fire in my

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belly.
I want to be successful.

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I want to do well in life.
And when they told me I couldn't

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walk again, I never be doubted
myself.

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To be honest.
I never be a big headed or

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anything, but I never, I knew I
was going to walk again.

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I knew deep down in my heart I
was going to walk again.

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That's incredible.
You've got a, a sense of a

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strength of character that's
very admirable.

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It's, it's impressive.
You know you didn't, I think.

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Everybody's got strength inside
them.

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Every single person has got
strength in their body.

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They don't know their guns, so
they need to use it.

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I think every single person in
the world has got something

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inside.
It would be brilliant in life.

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I think anyone watching can can
take from this also the power of

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the mind that just because
you've had a diagnosis and

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00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,520
because everything looks gloomy,
it doesn't necessarily have to

229
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,400
be the case.
You could have allowed that to

230
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,840
be your life and not.
Even tried.

231
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,920
Yeah, I could have rolled over,
felt sorry for myself and lay

232
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,400
there, listen to the doctors and
give up.

233
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,480
But I didn't.
And I think a lot of people, our

234
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,000
mindset is huge in all the
aspects of the world of of life.

235
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,240
I think in your career, in your
life, in your ment, mental

236
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,800
strength and resilience and
mindset is so important.

237
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,600
That's why I'm saying there's so
much more to you than appearing

238
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,160
on traitors.
So like, you know, I mean, it's

239
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,920
fantastic that you did and we'll
talk about that.

240
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,520
But this is another, this is
such another level of, of

241
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,600
strength and it's it's
inspirational.

242
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,080
I mean, watches.
Yeah, yeah.

243
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,160
There will be people watching us
going through things, having

244
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,320
some very bad health diagnosis
of loved ones with a terrible

245
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,960
health diagnosis and feeling
lost and feeling like there's no

246
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,200
hope.
And what you're saying is if you

247
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,320
can tap into that mind as much
as possible, it's it's going to

248
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,640
definitely put you on a
different path.

249
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,840
Even even the positivity of it
all, the mental attitude towards

250
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,240
the situation, right?
100% that I said I, I won't be

251
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,920
the real person out there.
There's too much unicorns and

252
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,560
rainbows and fluff out at the
moment.

253
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,680
And I people like my, like they
book these, my talks, my

254
00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:17,080
workshops, my they watch my
social media because I'm real,

255
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,560
I'm authentic.
And yeah, life is tough.

256
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:20,960
You are going to face challenge
in life.

257
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,480
But as long as you're having
more petty days and you are bad

258
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,560
and take one small step every
day and you might go forward 2

259
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,600
steps, three steps, you might
fall back 1:00.

260
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,480
As long as you keep going
yourself up, bless yourself or

261
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,520
believe in yourself and keep
going.

262
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,560
That's at the same now in
career, in relationships and

263
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:39,840
everything in life.
Just keep moving forward like 1%

264
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,880
a day trying to get better.
Every day I had a big goal, I

265
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,200
wanted to walk again, but every
day I wanted to do 5 steps, a

266
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,680
couple of steps more every
single day.

267
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,480
And I mounted up there to a huge
goal of walking again.

268
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,760
Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy to
think, but it is that little one

269
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,080
step at a time thing.
And you've got to have the

270
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,200
patience with yourself and it's
OK to fall and it's OK to take

271
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,280
one step today.
And I think, oh, why, why

272
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,240
couldn't I take more?
Why can't I walk further?

273
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,840
But it's OK that it was one step
I guess.

274
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,120
Yeah, 100% say people, I used to
be too hard on myself.

275
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,280
I'm so competitive.
I used to be so hard on myself

276
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,880
and I do lots of talks.
I said, people, be kind to

277
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,600
yourself.
I said, yeah, you might say

278
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,600
wait, you know, throw away
comments and call yourself name

279
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,600
silly and things like that.
But after a while you start to

280
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,960
believe it.
Be kind to yourself and like,

281
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,960
you know, don't be hard on
yourself, be compassionate on

282
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,680
yourself.
And you know, we're really doing

283
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:31,880
the best you can in life with
the tools that are available to

284
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,320
you.
So yeah, just take small steps

285
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,000
and having good people around
you is really good as well and a

286
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,480
good sport network ground to
help you pick up a feeling it

287
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,360
down.
So you took these steps until it

288
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,720
was a 1200 kilometre trick.
Where did you go, What did you

289
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,120
do and why?
And what message were you

290
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,280
sending with this very, very
long walk?

291
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,680
I walked 1200 kilometres across
four countries.

292
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,320
I walked the length of Scotland.
I started in Ardross Castle.

293
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,800
We filmed the trainers right at
the top of Scotland, at the top

294
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,360
of the Highlands length of
Scotland, part of England.

295
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,960
I went on a ferry then from
Liverpool to Northern Ireland

296
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,640
and walked the length of Ireland
back over to North Wales and

297
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,000
walked the full length of Wales
and ended up in Cardiff Castle

298
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,120
on 10th November.
And I did that for everybody out

299
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,600
there who is battling demons,
thinks they're not good enough,

300
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,080
being told they can't do
something in life, lost their

301
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,600
confidence, self worth, you
know, Coma.

302
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,560
I'd say six couple boxes.
I worked in a corporate world

303
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,440
for years and corporate banking
for 18 years in Lloyds.

304
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,320
Then I've been in a coma and
also I'd never walk again.

305
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,720
So I lost my confidence myself,
beliefs.

306
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,760
I did have people out there
struggling to prove to these

307
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,960
people.
Keep working hard, keep

308
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,280
believing in yourself.
Everybody cheats anything he

309
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,040
likes to want.
I'm I'm basically I'm I'm

310
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,200
fruitful, I suppose.
Take us with you on that.

311
00:14:54,200 --> 00:15:01,520
Walk on to a moment, whatever
moment you remember vividly what

312
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,320
was going through your mind in
that moment.

313
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,120
Where were you?
What were you doing?

314
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,480
What was going through your
mind?

315
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,720
It was one time I hurt my knee
really badly and it was my

316
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,280
fault.
I didn't do any stretching or I

317
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,880
wasn't doing any like any
exercise at the end of the day

318
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,040
because I was doing, I was
probably walking about 40

319
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,840
kilometers a day, every day, a
marathon a day.

320
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,680
That's a lot of walking.
That's a lot.

321
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,880
I want to go back to my
accommodation.

322
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,160
I just want to.
I just want to relax.

323
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:26,560
To be honest.
I should have been stretching,

324
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,680
foam rolling, so I walked.
I think it was 800 kilometers

325
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,080
and I hurt my knee really badly
and the team of people who are

326
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,080
doing my walk with me called
Challenge the Wild.

327
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,920
The owner wanted to pull me from
the pull me from the challenge

328
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,880
and he said we have to stop.
You've got to think your long

329
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,640
term health because this could
have implications on you.

330
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,120
But again, showing my resilience
and that's my stubborn side.

331
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:47,920
I said no, I'm not.
I'm not quitting.

332
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,320
I'll crawl if I'll crawl my
hands and knees at the end of

333
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,880
the finish line, I'll never give
up.

334
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,400
I'll never give up at anything
in life.

335
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,040
And if I believe in something
bad enough in life, whatever

336
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,800
that is, I'll go after it.
I'll get it eventually now.

337
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:00,760
Yeah.
Not being big headed anything

338
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,760
like so I really wanted, I
really believed in.

339
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,280
I've achieved it, I've got it
and I walk.

340
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,520
I knew I was going to finish my
walk.

341
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,600
I got a hot day.
I thought I would have done it,

342
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,600
but I wasn't going to stop.
But yeah, it was a tough, tough

343
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,720
day.
That was a really tough day.

344
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,240
You had a low moment, but again,
you stuck through it.

345
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,360
Yeah, it's a little bit like
that David Golkins guy, you

346
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,160
know.
I don't know if you know him.

347
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,960
Do you know him?
He was putting photos up of his

348
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,080
blistered feet.
And you think, really?

349
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,520
But, you know, I mean, yeah, as
you say, if you want it badly

350
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,960
enough, if it's for a good
'cause you're definitely doing

351
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,960
the right thing.
Because The thing is, that's the

352
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,360
message to people as well.
You want them to stick it out

353
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,400
that really bad.
It's almost like an earthquake

354
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,360
that's happening.
You know, it's shaking up your

355
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,280
life.
Just hang in there.

356
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,160
Yes again, I'm the right purpose
isn't I suppose I I thought all

357
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,000
them people out there who were
struggling in silence backing

358
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,760
their mental health.
We're not fortunate.

359
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,120
You know not they can't walk in
wheelchairs.

360
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,040
I'm grateful that the fact that
I can walk again and when I work

361
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,600
with people that have brain
injury or it makes me so

362
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,320
grateful.
I was so close to being like

363
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,079
that and not being able to feed
myself, being able to walk.

364
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,040
So when I do, when I walk, a bit
of pain, a couple of hours of

365
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,880
pain, a couple of days of pain
is worth it for all these people

366
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,000
out there doing that, wasting
money for all that many people

367
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,640
out there not as fortunate as
me, I suppose.

368
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,960
So that's what kept me going.
It kept me driving on.

369
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,240
OK, Now we're going to go back a
little bit more into your past.

370
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,760
You, you said that you used to
live by people's expectations.

371
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,640
What?
What did you mean by that?

372
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,680
I think we all do.
I think most people do in this

373
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,520
country.
And when you're born, you're the

374
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,280
truest, most authentic version
of yourself.

375
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,080
As a child, you're going to
inhibitions.

376
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,440
You've got no, you've got no
self esteem issues, no

377
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,560
confidence.
You're just plain innocent

378
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,360
children with blank campuses.
And then you get programmed in a

379
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:49,320
society to be socially accepted.
It's all your parents do it.

380
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,160
You know.
They'll punish you sometimes

381
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,760
just for being yourself.
You're running around laughing.

382
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,240
They'll send you to your
bedroom.

383
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,600
They'll take your toy off.
You're thinking just being

384
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,160
myself.
And then do a job like your dad,

385
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,360
do this job like your mum.
They can't even be like your

386
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:04,720
brother.
You compare to your siblings.

387
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,960
So then we go to school.
We actually get judged some more

388
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,520
by the teachers.
Our self worth starts getting

389
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,680
valued by the grades we get in
schools.

390
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,280
We always get agreed.
Just think you're amazing, very

391
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,720
eager to get written off so
people, you know, attach their

392
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,600
self worth and value as a human
being to their achievements in

393
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,200
life and the material things in
life.

394
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,680
And that's what I talk about in
schools now.

395
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,040
And it says it's important to
try hard to get good things.

396
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,680
I'm not saying that don't beat
yourselves up and think you're a

397
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:30,880
bad person.
You can achieve it.

398
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,880
And then we end up then finding
a job with the biggest salary

399
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,040
possible.
Relatively at a young age, more

400
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,120
money means more happiness.
Then one day you make up at a

401
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,720
house, you're in a house, you
got a good salary cabinet, a

402
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,040
bigger salary, you got a good
body, a nice house, big car,

403
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,880
pretty partner.
You still?

404
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,800
I was really miserable.
I was that person.

405
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,280
I look in the Mirror Now and
again.

406
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,920
I think I got everything in life
that I was told that would make

407
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,960
me happy, but I'm still
miserable.

408
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,600
Is that what?
So, so, so you had the car, you

409
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,040
had the house, you had the the,
the partner, you know, the

410
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,520
pretty partner as you put it.
You're not happy.

411
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,000
No every now.
And again, I look in the mirror,

412
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,560
I think I just, I'm not happy.
I just get frustrated with

413
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,120
myself thinking I've got
everything in life that I was

414
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,400
told and make me happy what I
was doing.

415
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,240
I was given to everybody else's
expectations, my social circle,

416
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,280
my parents not doing what I want
to do.

417
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,280
So I'm, you know, people call it
a middle life crisis.

418
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,560
I don't think it is a middle
life crisis.

419
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,960
I think it's an awakening
really.

420
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,920
You realise who the true version
is of you.

421
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,320
I say to people in school now
when parents, I say let your

422
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,000
children live their life and do
something they enjoy.

423
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,640
I know you always what's best
for your children.

424
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,000
I know you always what's best
for them, but don't force them

425
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,160
to do a job because I'll end up
in a job for 20-30 years.

426
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,080
I used to drag myself to a job
every day.

427
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,400
I didn't fulfill me at all.
It was good money.

428
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,240
I hated it, but I was earning
good money so it was hard.

429
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,720
Once you get up to a certain
level, it's hard to take a step

430
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,880
back.
It's hard to take a drop back

431
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,360
then to find somebody you want
to do like years ago.

432
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,280
I didn't ever gone back in
salary.

433
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,000
What was going up.
I've never actually looked at a

434
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,320
job specification or job
description and thought to

435
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,200
myself, well, that's really
good.

436
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,640
It's 510 grand less, a much
better job.

437
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,600
I've never done that.
Do you think there's a failure?

438
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,200
There's a failure going
backwards?

439
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,360
There's no.
I wish I'd done a job now, but I

440
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,120
really fulfilling job.
I wanted not to keep my mother

441
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,280
and father happy.
My parents just seen people.

442
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,160
My son's a bank manager.
My son's a bank manager.

443
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,560
And I used to say that, yeah,
who cares?

444
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,040
Who cares?
You're a bank manager.

445
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,400
It doesn't matter.
Well, I mean, there's a lot of

446
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,760
kids that attend the school
with, with my children that

447
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,840
want, want to be doctors, but
they don't really want to be

448
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,640
doctors.
It's the parents have put these

449
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,640
expectations on.
So they're all going to go study

450
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,560
medicine, but you can kind of
tell that their interests are

451
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,880
more in other areas.
You just take 5 minutes speaking

452
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,280
to them and you know that that's
not really, you know, but they

453
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,120
all that's the right thing to
do.

454
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:55,080
And, and yes, it's it's it's a
people pleasing thing that's

455
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,480
going on, a society pleasing
thing.

456
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,480
Whereas actually if you stay
true to your own talents, you're

457
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,520
more likely to be successful
because that's what you're

458
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,680
talented in anyway and you're
motivated to do that thing.

459
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,880
So yeah, there's something quite
not right in a setup of our

460
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,320
societal, whatever you want to
call it, there's something

461
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,920
something's off.
I know it's You've got to work.

462
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:17,960
You've got to live to your
values.

463
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,480
If you've got your values, if
you're not living to your

464
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,560
values, you, you will feel it's
uneasy all the time.

465
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,360
You never, not even your true
values would be your true

466
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,760
authentic self.
Being authentic is really

467
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,680
powerful.
You take your mask off, be the

468
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,800
true version of yourself.
And it's scary taking your mask

469
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,000
off, to be honest.
And I can see why people don't

470
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,080
want to take their mask off
because it's scary.

471
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,680
You feel vulnerable, you feel
afraid, you feel like control,

472
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:39,920
you feel all these different
things.

473
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,600
Once you do it, you feel much
more.

474
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,000
I know you feel fulfilled and
you feel it's like empowering

475
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,960
action in the true version of
you, not some fake personia

476
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,680
Bernard for all these people.
So the people around you get the

477
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,120
real version in.
I've lent in my vulnerable side

478
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,520
the last couple of years, but I
thought 1 was weakness years

479
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,440
ago, but it's not.
It's actually brave and great

480
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,040
just being vulnerable and
strength.

481
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,800
Do you feel now that you're able
to live without that mask?

482
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,080
Yes, 100%.
And then the people around me

483
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,640
who care about me, who love me,
they'll they'll stay with me

484
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,760
through me.
Like growth is uncomfortable, to

485
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,720
be honest.
When you grow, you lose people

486
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,640
by the wayside.
People get jealous because

487
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,400
you're growing, you're you're
creating every company.

488
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,560
It's only growing.
I think it is highlights.

489
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,960
It highlights an alien in them.
There's a weakness in them.

490
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,880
So I've lost and lost people,
but I don't really bother with

491
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,480
they're old friends anymore.
So I I still see them, don't get

492
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,040
me wrong, but I'm different.
Change them.

493
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,680
And when he speaks growth.
I'm quite lonely, Nice, but I

494
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,720
love it.
I'm growing more now in the last

495
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,520
couple of years I have been 45
years.

496
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,440
More it's the rugby competitive
mentality in you.

497
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,200
I'm telling you, you can never
you you can stop playing rugby,

498
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,480
but you won't change that that
mentality.

499
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,440
OK.
So before traitors you, you, you

500
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,160
touched on this, but you had
this career in banking and

501
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,280
insurance.
So what what was the decision

502
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,040
you made to stop that?
Like what step away from that

503
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,800
security, you know, because it
is, it's financial security and

504
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,680
then you're going, I'm going to
take a risk.

505
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,680
What what happened?
I still ask myself that

506
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,680
question.
Yeah, yeah, look.

507
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,480
To be honest, I went on the
trainers and I thought I was

508
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,160
going to carry on working with
insurance and do some talks on

509
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,760
the side, a bit of podcast,
whatever.

510
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,640
But I was so busy after the
show, people were contacting me

511
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,840
constantly contacting me, saying
come and talk here, can you come

512
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,920
and do this?
Come and do that is my story.

513
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,560
Even though it doesn't have to
be a car accident, but the

514
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,840
consequences and things
afterwards are quite relatable

515
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,120
to millions in this country.
Lost myself worth my confidence,

516
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,000
You know, I failure.
I thought it was a bad thing

517
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,080
growing up.
I wouldn't do anything unless I

518
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,800
knew I was going to win or be
successful happening.

519
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,680
Yeah, workshops, failures are a
bad thing.

520
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,640
So after the show, nobody's
office coming to me.

521
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,600
So I was trying to work seven
days a week.

522
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,240
I was working 30 hours from
making my day job.

523
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,560
But I was also lying to my boss
at work all the time and I say

524
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,280
to my boss in work, I'm off to
see a customer numbers,

525
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,920
insurance policies due for
renewal.

526
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,280
I go off into my podcast on my
keynote tour because my life is

527
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,520
all over social media on
LinkedIn or Instagram.

528
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,200
Within about two hours or three
hours of leaving my office, all

529
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:13,360
over LinkedIn say welcome Andrew
from the traders through his

530
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,200
podcast or I go back to my
office and later on the next.

531
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,280
What's that?
Yes.

532
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,880
No.
He said The thing is the big

533
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,400
bosses in London, along with the
companies, they're watching you

534
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560
like a hawk and they're
challenging him, saying what's

535
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,560
he doing?
He's so busy doing his talks,

536
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:32,680
what income does he bring into
the business?

537
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040
And to be honest, I wasn't doing
anything.

538
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,200
I was, I was keeping on top of
my renewals, doing lots of my

539
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,840
renewals, keep my existing
customers happy, but it wasn't

540
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,080
really doing any good business
at all.

541
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,960
So I'm a good person, good
morals and values.

542
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,440
And I said to my boss, I got to
leave.

543
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760
I said I'm robbing a salary off
at the moment.

544
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,520
I said it doesn't sit back to me
and he's a good guy, he's a

545
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,600
brilliant guy and he said yeah,
we understand.

546
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,960
So you don't have to work your
three months notice because I

547
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,000
have 3 months notice in my
contract because I'm a senior.

548
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,240
So I left them, I pay there.
So I left, it's a massive gamble

549
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,560
and left it.
Nothing and nothing set up.

550
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,160
Nothing, nothing really.
And I'm still trying to set it

551
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,720
up now.
I'm still, I'm still doing

552
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,920
things now.
I should have been doing it a

553
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,280
year ago but I let everybody
else from my life in the last 16

554
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,440
months rather than trying to do
it myself, being organised and

555
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,160
structured.
So I've been very reactive, very

556
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,880
proactive.
Well, you started to to really

557
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,320
to work for yourself that that's
what you started.

558
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,600
That's how you, that's how you
did it.

559
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,920
You started to invest the time
into, instead of making the

560
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,280
money for that client, for that
company, you invested it in

561
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,480
yourself into your social media
presence, into your own brand.

562
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,760
And you have to start somewhere.
And it is a lot of work.

563
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,000
It is time and all of that goes
into it.

564
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,960
So you just, yeah, you outgrew.
It's scary, don't get me wrong.

565
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,320
Yeah, I've always worked all my
life.

566
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,480
I've worked in banking for 18
years, insurance and so all my

567
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,320
life I've got into work, used
their systems, used their

568
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,880
marketing, used their CRM.
You don't have to think of

569
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,640
anything, just my customers.
Now it's all on me.

570
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,920
It's not.
It doesn't like me inside.

571
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,880
I don't enjoy it.
I enjoy talking to people,

572
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,040
building relationships, keeping
in relationships, meeting

573
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,680
people.
When it comes to all the back

574
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,160
office stuff, I'd rather like.
I sit in the house sometimes for

575
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,320
an hour or two and I think I
can't do this.

576
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,960
So bored now I end up have a
coffee and a meeting with

577
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,200
somebody.
So I got to start leaning

578
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:20,240
uncomfortable.
I don't pay something to do it.

579
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,440
I'm going what am I doing to pay
someone?

580
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,000
These things cost money.
I left my job, I've been into

581
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,480
nothing.
I had no time to save any money

582
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:28,880
because I wasn't planning my
job.

583
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,160
So I didn't have six months to
plan things.

584
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,600
I just left the same day.
So I had no chance to really

585
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,240
save any money on one side.
I didn't win the things either.

586
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,680
So people think you're only
being on the telly or loan of

587
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,880
money because I didn't win the
TV show.

588
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,600
I was on it.
So I lost it in the final.

589
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,480
So it's been, it's been a
massive challenge.

590
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,160
Now it's it's going really bad
over the last couple of months.

591
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,000
It is a challenge.
It's definitely a brave move.

592
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,240
I'll, I'll, I'll give you that.
Crazy.

593
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,280
Crazy.
I don't know.

594
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520
Crazy or brave, I don't know.
Yeah, both probably.

595
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:04,800
So let's talk a little bit about
if it's OK with you, about your

596
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,280
your family.
So you said you've never been

597
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,800
your parents never told you they
loved you.

598
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,480
You know that that's quite a
bold statement to make.

599
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,920
What was your relationship like
with your dad?

600
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,720
It's got me.
I got on well with my parents.

601
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,040
My parents, the way they showed
their love to me and my three

602
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,480
brothers was burning a roof over
my head, clothes on my back and

603
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,600
food on the table.
It's a generation they come

604
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,600
from.
Yeah, very compassionable to

605
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,360
their parents now, because, you
know, my, my dad's 82, for

606
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:33,560
example, they would have been
80.

607
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,360
So they're really old school.
My parents have never driven a

608
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,520
car.
They've never sat near a plane.

609
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,080
They have the same meals every
night at the same times.

610
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,920
They watch the same things on
television.

611
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,080
The creatures are habits with a
fixed mindset.

612
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,080
So I'm compassionate as my
parents because they grow how to

613
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,360
show their feelings and
emotions.

614
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,240
Like my mother and father.
I've read a lot of love

615
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,680
languages.
My father's love language is

616
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,840
time.
So he gave up his time to watch

617
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,120
UK in rugby.
Wouldn't miss any of my matches,

618
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,760
wouldn't miss my Britney on the
touchline, standing on the side

619
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,800
of the field in the rain, snow,
the wind, wouldn't miss again.

620
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,640
That was his wish.
I love that.

621
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,040
I love that.
My mother's acts of service.

622
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,520
So when I left home at 22 years
of age, I'd never used the

623
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,640
washing machine, I'd never used
the cooker, never used an iron.

624
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,720
My mother did everything for us
when she when she was, she was

625
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,600
really intelligent.
She left grammar school and she

626
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,960
had a job in passion of
Westminster Bank and she was one

627
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,120
of the only women in the country
to work back then.

628
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,040
It was a real male dominated
industry.

629
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,240
She had a good job in National
Westminster Bank.

630
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,320
But as soon as my oldest brother
Simon was born, she gave her

631
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,320
birth career to be most classed
as an old fashioned housewife.

632
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,760
And so my mother did everything
for her life and her sons and

633
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:42,400
my.
Dad.

634
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,880
My three brothers were the same.
We left home like when I when I

635
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,360
was there.
She everything for us.

636
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,360
My mother passed away a few
weeks ago.

637
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,080
My dad really struggles because
he's never had to do anything

638
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,640
all his life.
No, he's got to try and do it

639
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,760
all and he gets really
frustrated at the moment because

640
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,680
the mother don't realise Jack
what she did for us.

641
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,480
Does anybody leave hope and
realise and appreciate what she

642
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,200
did for us?
That's incredible.

643
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,200
It's so nice that you see that,
you know that you appreciate

644
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,640
that.
A good relationship with a good

645
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,160
upbringing.
I knew, I knew we were loved.

646
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,000
You could tell it's a nice warm
hope and everything.

647
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,400
But yeah, it was just, it was
just the emotional side of it.

648
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,600
And I, I grew up exactly.
I think not being able to show

649
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,160
any feelings and emotions.
I thought if you show feelings

650
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880
and emotions, I made you weak.
I thought men do show feelings

651
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,080
and emotions.
I was a rugby boy, in person,

652
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,440
doorman, security, close
protection and then all these

653
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,480
toxic massively jobs thinking
you can't show feelings and

654
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,960
emotions after my accident.
They didn't speak to anybody

655
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,640
after the accident.
They offered me cancer, but I

656
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,840
refused it because I thought I
was going to see somebody in a

657
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,320
white coat who was going to
judge me, psychoanalyze me, and

658
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,680
I refused.
I said I'm not going to see that

659
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,720
either.
I'm I've said he had textbook

660
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
for five years either.
I'm feeling like I refused

661
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,200
cancer therapy.
I didn't speak to anybody for

662
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,360
years.
You know what?

663
00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:00,920
I went to a school in in South
Africa and in Graham's town and

664
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880
it was quite a British school.
It had like a British system

665
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,400
upbringing.
And something bad happened with

666
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,200
one of my friends and we were
all sad and we started crying

667
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,680
and, you know, it was very
emotional and all that.

668
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,080
And then the lady who was in in
charge, she came up to us and

669
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,640
she was like, listen, come here,
come here.

670
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,120
And we're like, OK, so.
And then she took us to the side

671
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,520
to her like the headquarters,
whatever you want to call it,

672
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,040
and close the door behind and
said, look, you can be emotional

673
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,960
here, deal with it.
And when you've finished, then

674
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,680
you can come out.
And I just thought, wow, I'd

675
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,400
never seen anything like, you
know, I just, I'm still not sure

676
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,920
how I feel about it till this
day.

677
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,080
Because in a way I understand
that you don't want to inflict

678
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,080
your drama onto others or
whatever.

679
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,160
But then again, what's wrong
with with emotion?

680
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,800
Same thing.
I tried to hug my mum, you know,

681
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,360
when she hadn't seen her for a
long time.

682
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,160
She walked into the school and I
dived onto her and I squeezed

683
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,880
the living daylights out of her
because I'm just so happy to see

684
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,800
her.
And again, in the warden we

685
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,640
don't do that.
And my mum sort of looked and

686
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,000
she was oh, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry.

687
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,400
She didn't know that it was my
mum.

688
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,000
And I thought.
Yeah.

689
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,680
It's a bit.
What'd you, what'd you say to

690
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,880
that?
Yeah.

691
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,080
It's crazy and I suppose that
happens years ago and I suppose

692
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,720
for men, especially in this
country, it's all from a very

693
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,120
young age.
It's suppress your feelings and

694
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,680
emotions as a young boy, you
know, don't cry, babies cry,

695
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,960
girls cry, man.
Absolutely young age where most

696
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,320
men at the soul suppress your
feelings and emotions.

697
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,320
So you build all these emotions
insight they bottled up the

698
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,800
2030, forty, 50-60 years.
Sometimes they never lead into

699
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,120
their emotions on their
vulnerable sides.

700
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,800
So they've always pent up
emotions inside them.

701
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,240
And it comes out in other ways.
Then it could be, you know,

702
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,080
drugs, it could be different
ways.

703
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,560
It comes out in other ways as
sex, drugs or something.

704
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,880
And it comes out in violence,
hunger, frustration, because

705
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,680
they're building up these
emotions and they've learned

706
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,480
over the last couple of years
that if you've got emotional

707
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080
body, especially if it's upset
or anger, but rather than trying

708
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,040
to suppress it and push it
outwards, I'm sure normally

709
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,560
happens by doing that, that
makes it more stronger and

710
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,120
stronger and stronger and it
reconfirms our emotion then.

711
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,480
So you have to deal it rather
than suppressing it, try and

712
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,880
lean into it and deal with it.
Otherwise it'll keep on coming

713
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,120
back again now and again.
So when you're upset, for

714
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,200
example, try and think, I always
think to myself now, what's

715
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,560
causing that?
It's different from my

716
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,400
childhood.
What's causing that?

717
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Are you trying to ignore it and
it down?

718
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,840
Push it down.
I'll try and lean into it.

719
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,200
It's uncomfortable.
Sometimes you gotta find out.

720
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,520
You're lucky yourself in secrets
and everything, but you lean

721
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,640
into it.
How much, how much carbon you

722
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,160
start?
Lean into your uncomfortable

723
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,040
emotions.
I like it, lean into it.

724
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,920
Yeah, rather than try to push it
away, I.

725
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,320
Like it.
Look at it as if you know.

726
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,960
Just accept it.
Don't rushing under the carpet

727
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,080
is what you're saying.
Really.

728
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,200
Yeah, most of the time it's
normally something that's

729
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,160
happened from your childhood.
You're in a child, you've got

730
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,040
some people that are in a child
and normally it's something that

731
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800
happened from when you were 567
years of age.

732
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,840
Someone has said something to
you, done something, said

733
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,240
something, a trauma like we got
in a I used to, like the child

734
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,760
used to come up on a regular
basis.

735
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,000
In the last couple years I
really I've learned it working

736
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,400
and we're healing my inner
child, I suppose.

737
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,360
OK.
Then this opportunity comes

738
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,680
along for you to be on traitors.
Why did you do it?

739
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,640
I asked myself that question,
why did I do that?

740
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,400
I actually had a message on my
Instagram page I didn't apply

741
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,360
for initially.
I would never apply for things

742
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,120
like that.
I don't really watch reality TV.

743
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,560
So I had a message on my
Instagram from a casting

744
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,320
director saying do you find do
you want to apply for the show?

745
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,840
Your story looks incredible.
You seem like a nice person.

746
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,440
You want to apply for the show.
At first of all, I thought

747
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,120
somebody actually think it was
serious.

748
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,040
And then I thought to myself, I
can get a great profile and a

749
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,320
platform, the connections I've
got now to do what I want to do

750
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,040
now.
So I wanted to start talking

751
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,800
about, well-being a mental
health before the TV show, but I

752
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,240
only had a couple of 100
followers.

753
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,760
I didn't have any connections.
So that's genuinely the only

754
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,320
reason I'm on that show.
I don't care.

755
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,560
Don't be recognized in the
street.

756
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,480
I'm a humble man.
I'll never cheat the person I am

757
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,360
regardless of how successful I
become, or I'll never cheat the

758
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,639
person I am.
The only reason on that show is

759
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:14,800
I got a platform to do what I
do.

760
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,440
Now all I want to do is lie on
my deathbed, close my eyes,

761
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,760
don't know any difference in
this planet.

762
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,320
All I want to do is help people.
I don't be able to suffer in

763
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,920
silence, guided for many many
years.

764
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,920
I want to help give back to
people.

765
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,480
I will show people you can't
overcome lots of things in life

766
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,440
and you have a good life.
This definitely comes across

767
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,280
from you.
I can feel, I know we're we're

768
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,040
filming this remotely, but I can
feel how much you want this.

769
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,639
I can feel it that you want to
help people.

770
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,960
It's it's, you know, the thing
of the weird thing what they've

771
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,400
done with you and I don't know,
it's, it's quite clever.

772
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,400
But really they've you've you
are very authentic.

773
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,320
They've put you on traitors and
they've put you in as a faithful

774
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:58,560
initially, which is
understandable because of the

775
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,400
authentic and completely
transparent, honest person you

776
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,280
are.
But then there's a twist and

777
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,240
then you become a traitor.
How was that for you?

778
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,520
If you'd seen the show, you'll
see no, I wasn't very.

779
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,840
I wasn't very comfortable with
that.

780
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,000
I didn't enjoy it at.
All but you had to do it so.

781
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,360
Because I, Paul and Harry were
the traitors at the time.

782
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,200
They said if you didn't join us,
we were going to murder you the

783
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,600
next.
Actually you were such a strong

784
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,160
faithful, nobody was booked you
through the wrong table.

785
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,880
So you were a threat to us.
So they said the only way we're

786
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,840
going to do it either joining us
or we're going to murder you.

787
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,400
So if I didn't join them that
day, the next day I would have

788
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,440
gone another chop.
I've been gone.

789
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,240
So yeah, I didn't want to do it.
But at the end of the day, I

790
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,080
kept telling I'm not a stupid
guy.

791
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:44,800
I kept my feet on the ground and
I thought, it's just a game.

792
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,680
The people outside of this game
would know me, my family, my

793
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,120
close friends, they know what
person like me.

794
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,400
They're not not really a liar or
horrible person.

795
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,560
You know people around the
country watch you might have an

796
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,000
opinion.
They don't know me.

797
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,040
The people who really care about
who know me or I care about,

798
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,840
they know the real person and
like I'm a very competitive

799
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,800
sportsman.
It would have been like quitting

800
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,560
at half time and not finishing
the game for the final whistle.

801
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,840
My brothers were gone mad saying
give up a game before the final

802
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,800
whistle.
We always told to play until the

803
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,240
end of the game, so the final
whistle.

804
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,320
So I thought I'll change to a
traitor and carry on playing.

805
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,080
But it was awkward the first day
or two, then I got used to it.

806
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,520
Through your answer, it's very
interesting the way you've

807
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,480
answered that because it shows
me that you had an internal

808
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:37,840
struggle and you had to justify
becoming a traitor and doing

809
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,560
these things and, and, and
making it OK in order to be able

810
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,040
to do it.
So there there was an internal

811
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,840
struggle there mentally.
Massive.

812
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,640
Yeah, I was on the telly.
It took me a couple of minutes

813
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,240
to make the decision.
Probably about 10 for 15

814
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:53,840
minutes.
Actually, it didn't seem that

815
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,400
long on the television, but I'm
sat in that room for about 15 to

816
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,320
20 minutes thinking to myself, I
don't want to.

817
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,520
I'm an honest person, Good
parties and balls.

818
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,240
I didn't want to.
I didn't want to manipulate

819
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:07,040
people, twist things and that.
But yeah, I made the decision at

820
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,360
the end.
It was the first day or two.

821
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,360
It was quite obvious on the
telly that I was a traitor

822
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,400
because I hated it, because I
was paranoid that every when

823
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,600
you're talking about me.
But after a couple of days I

824
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,600
just got used.
In the moments when you were

825
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,960
faithful, that was pretty easy,
wasn't it?

826
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,240
You were, you were able to be
completely true to yourself and

827
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:27,080
that's all fine.
In the moments where you had to

828
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,480
be a traitor and you weren't
being true to the others

829
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:37,160
deliberately, what what effect
was this having on you?

830
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,800
You know, as in terms of being
an authentic person, which is

831
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,360
very important to you?
To be honest, if you watched the

832
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,400
show, I I didn't really have to
do much manipulation or

833
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,840
lighting.
To be honest, I just went along

834
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,840
with Harry, so I just didn't
want.

835
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,560
True, Harry.
I lied.

836
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,720
I made one lie to Ross.
I felt really bad inside.

837
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,720
My insides are twisting and
turning and I'm telling lot Ross

838
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,480
to his face at the round table.
He's lying, but I know he deep

839
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,640
down he's telling the truth
internally didn't sit right to

840
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,640
me at all.
And Ross went mad when I said

841
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,560
they were the lucid at the round
table and Ross said you said the

842
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,880
Lucifer.
I didn't say that word.

843
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,880
Don't even know what it means.
And I knew I knew exactly what

844
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,480
it meant and that it didn't feel
good, didn't didn't sit good

845
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,880
with me at all.
But that was only real time.

846
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,360
I actually have to lie to
anyone.

847
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,280
What did you learn about human
nature from that experience that

848
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,160
possibly surprised you?
I couldn't believe the sheep.

849
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,280
How much like when you watch all
the series, it's like a herd

850
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,320
mentality.
It's like a pack mentality.

851
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,400
You know, some people to jump on
the bandwagon and you know,

852
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,480
people just like the see the
celebrity versions, not Teddy.

853
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,440
Now people just jump on the
bandwagon.

854
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,600
They follow the herds.
They're too scared to, you know,

855
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,880
stand up being authentic and go
against everyone else.

856
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,120
So they they all just follow
each other to be honest.

857
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,160
They're like sheep like sheep.
I suppose so.

858
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,520
And every series of the traitors
is exactly the same.

859
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,440
And that's why the traitors are
always winning the first few

860
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,520
weeks.
They're winning by landslide by

861
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,800
what, 71?
Normally they're winning by if

862
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,520
nobody is even have to put their
head above the parapet and just

863
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,240
be honest and authentic and call
a traitor out again, it's it's

864
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:13,480
an awkward game to start calling
traitors out.

865
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,320
The only in the game you're
going to get murdered.

866
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,160
It's a really difficult game to
play and do be honest and true

867
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,400
to yourself and be honest and
tell call about the traitors.

868
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:24,360
On the other hand, then no, if
you start calling the traitors

869
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,640
out, you're going to get
murdered.

870
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,120
So it it depends really how you
want to play that game.

871
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,800
If you want to get in the game,
stay in the game as long as you

872
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,960
wanted to, like I wanted to try
and win it.

873
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,920
Or you try to be brave and
honest.

874
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,640
Be true to yourself from the
very start.

875
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,720
I mean, there's parallels to The
Apprentice which I was on, which

876
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:43,080
is you, you did really well in
the beginning keeping a low

877
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,160
profile because you definitely
don't want to be project manager

878
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,680
in week one of The Apprentice
either.

879
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,640
There, there are ways to deal
with these games, but what

880
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,400
people don't realise about
reality TV is that it is

881
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,280
pressure.
It's not easy.

882
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,680
I mean, I, I, I didn't find it
easy, did you?

883
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,440
It's not easy.
I'm just quite lucky because I

884
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,840
kept my game plan when I went in
there was to get on, get on with

885
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:06,720
it.
I'm a nice person.

886
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:08,000
I got on with all the other
contestants.

887
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,120
I was quite friendly.
I didn't say too much.

888
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,200
Can you say too much?
You get murdered.

889
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,680
If you want to say nothing at
all because you're too quiet,

890
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,760
you'll get suspicious.
So I just said enough, you take

891
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,520
over.
My game plan was under the

892
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,360
radar, like to the very end, and
then I was going to make my move

893
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,960
at the very end.
But Ross best my cancel about

894
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,600
the round table.
So I was lucky.

895
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,080
I never got really under any
pressure at the round table.

896
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,600
Only once accused the wrong
table.

897
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,480
My answer that was fine.
Some people, the wrong table

898
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,080
actually crumble under the
pressure.

899
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,600
They got accused and they're
arguing and it is a massive

900
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,160
pressure situation when you're
being accused of something you

901
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,280
haven't done, he normalized.
It's horrible.

902
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:49,280
Yeah, but at the round table,
you've got six or seven people

903
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,080
against you.
It's even worse.

904
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,440
They're all firing questions at
you, and you sat there.

905
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,320
I've seen people just breaking
crumble up in front of my eyes.

906
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,680
I'm so sorry for them.
And you know, when you talk

907
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,680
about that sheep mentality, it's
also a little bit about who can

908
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,880
be the sacrificial lamb here.
So who's weak?

909
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,840
It's sniffing out the weak party
pin in a label on them.

910
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,320
And this is exactly the same
with The Apprentice, by the way.

911
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,920
You almost sense blood.
You know the sharks are circling

912
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,440
around.
So yes, it's cheap, but it's

913
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,160
also sharks at the same time.
They sniff the blood, you're

914
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,240
weak, and then they attack and
they bring that sacrificial lamb

915
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,880
down and then it's like we're
safe.

916
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Bye, bye to you.
Yeah, that's very true.

917
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,680
Actually.
That's good.

918
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,120
Yeah, it's a.
Jungle out there.

919
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,240
There is a jungle out there.
There is there are lots of nice

920
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,880
people out there.
There's lots of very sly and

921
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,880
sneaky people out there as well.
A little stab you in the back, a

922
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,960
lot of snakes.
I've found that out a lot the

923
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,480
last 14-15 months in this world
I'm living in now.

924
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,520
So I'm, I've been thrusted in
this limelight.

925
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:46,520
I enjoy it.
I love it.

926
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,160
I mean, but there's lots of
people out there who've used me

927
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,040
so much over the last because of
my name.

928
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,680
Come here and do this.
They promise things to return

929
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,560
things you might, you know, I'll
do it for free or in return.

930
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,120
I'll give you this in return,
I'll give you that.

931
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,400
You never hear off again.
So, you know, I'm a nice person,

932
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,040
a big heart.
I want to help people, but at

933
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,640
the end of the day, I need doing
money.

934
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:05,840
I've got to pay bills.
I've got a roof.

935
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,560
Put my head exactly in everyone
else.

936
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,520
So this is not exactly to be
honest, you're like, you're

937
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,600
getting better for us if these
people like to.

938
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,360
Be honest, that's not right.
Yeah, there.

939
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,920
You know, I had an intelligence
officer on here the other day

940
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,960
and we were speaking about, you
know, different types of

941
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,000
personalities and, and he's been
in lots of different situations.

942
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,640
And we were speaking about how
actually, if you look at humans

943
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,720
on all the different
personalities, we can, it's

944
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,960
almost like you can categorise
people into types of animals

945
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,720
that they could potentially be.
So you get the snakes, you know,

946
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,360
you get the parasitic people,
you get the viruses that you

947
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,640
can't even you, you can't see
the danger.

948
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,920
But oh boy, is it there.
You get the lions, you get the

949
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,160
sheep, you get the wolves.
Yeah, I love that.

950
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,680
Yeah, I love that analogy.
Yeah, it's good.

951
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,240
You can keep going.
There are.

952
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:56,400
It is for sure.
Yeah, it's a zoo.

953
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,160
It's A and what you really want
is, is what's the best in

954
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,840
nature, which is a symbiotic
relationship where it's good for

955
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,760
everyone.
You know, let's let's go

956
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,640
together, you know, 100% and one
of those.

957
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,200
Is more collaboration.
If people work together, there's

958
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,000
so much.
I know it's competitive if you

959
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,720
want your money, but I think
there's enough business out

960
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:17,680
there for everyone, whatever
their business, whatever they're

961
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,800
saying, work together.
I mean come together, work

962
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,160
together, especially in
well-being a mental health.

963
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,040
It's not a competition.
We're not talking about KPIs or

964
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,800
money.
It's all about people's lives,

965
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:30,080
so we've got to help each other
work together.

966
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,440
There's so much pettiness in
fighting and things that that

967
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,120
goes on.
It's unbelievable, honestly.

968
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,600
There is, isn't there?
There really is.

969
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,440
So what did the traitors teach
you about vulnerability?

970
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,800
Yeah, it actually learns a lot
about vulnerability.

971
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,840
But the biggest thing I learned
in the traitors was what's

972
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,000
important in life.
I had pictures of my family

973
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,160
around my room where I was
staying.

974
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,200
And then I go back, I go back to
my room every at the end of

975
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,680
every day and I talk to my
pictures.

976
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,520
I thought I was going mad.
Every morning before I, I left

977
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,040
work to the castle, I talk to my
pictures again.

978
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,040
I see people to the psychologist
comes to our room every few

979
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,680
days.
Victoria, she was amazing.

980
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,080
And I'd say, am I going mad?
I'm talking to my pictures.

981
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,680
You know, it's great.
You're getting off your chest,

982
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,800
you're grounded, you're
obviously very intelligent.

983
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,320
You're talking to them, getting
off your chest, not bottling

984
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,360
things up.
I looked around the room.

985
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,920
I knew about a week before the
end I wasn't going to win it.

986
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,560
I knew I wasn't going to win it
because it was so much.

987
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,120
He had so much influence, Harry,
over the rest of the people.

988
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,680
But I looked around the room and
I thought to myself, this is all

989
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,160
that.
These people, they love me

990
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,920
exactly the same.
I come first, second, 10th.

991
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,880
All these people think exactly
the same.

992
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,080
Yeah, we just wanted to win.
I'm competitive, 95,000 lbs.

993
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,960
It'd be nice, not invented about
it at all, but who needs 95,000

994
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,880
lbs?
But that's what's important to

995
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,200
me.
That made me realise it gave me

996
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,320
lots of time on my own to think
about life in general, what's

997
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,720
important, what's not important
to life.

998
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,000
So I had lots of thinking time
to think about what's really

999
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,200
important to me.
OK.

1000
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:04,640
And your exit from the traitors,
you appeared very emotional.

1001
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,480
What emotions were going through
your mind?

1002
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,480
How did you feel?
And and and maybe for those that

1003
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,120
didn't know what happened.
When I left I was actually quite

1004
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,280
calm on the telly.
I was quite.

1005
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,560
I smiled when I walked off
because I knew I was coming.

1006
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,840
Louise, Molly, E, Molly, Jazz
and Harry were in the final of

1007
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,760
four of us at the round table.
I got voted off so Harry, Jazz

1008
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,080
and Molly voted me off.
So I left and I was come forth

1009
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,600
and I, like I said, I knew a
week before the end, not a week,

1010
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,360
a few days before the end of
Morning Times and you were going

1011
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,680
to vote for me.
I come to terms I'd had all day

1012
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,840
to think about it, my own thing,
but all day because you were

1013
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,960
split up on the last day because
the final went on much later

1014
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,040
than what we expected.
But yeah, so I had all day to

1015
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,240
sit and just think about things
and harm myself down and trying

1016
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,080
to think about what I'm going to
do my next move.

1017
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,120
Do I go?
It's Harry, do I try and win it?

1018
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,320
And it was a little bit
stressful.

1019
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,760
I got, I was quite comfortable.
I was quite proud of myself

1020
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,440
actually.
So the first time in all my

1021
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,240
life, I suppose 2530 years, I'm
actually proud of myself.

1022
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,600
I'm proud of where I got to.
It was years ago I'd be

1023
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,760
disappointed I didn't win it.
But now I'm proud of where I

1024
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,080
came.
And I got upset because that's

1025
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,280
the first time in a long time
that I've actually felt proud of

1026
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,080
myself and actually proud of my
achievements.

1027
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,480
I'm going to ask you this.
I mean, do you think, and I'm

1028
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,280
just putting it out there, that
it might be a good thing not to

1029
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,360
win the traitor award?
I mean, I'm just putting it out

1030
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:38,160
there.
I don't know.

1031
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,400
I mean, obviously it's a game.
But yeah, I wouldn't beat myself

1032
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,480
up about that at all.
And to come forth is incredible.

1033
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,280
And you had to play both.
You had the most difficult role

1034
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,600
because you also had formed
relationships.

1035
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,680
You had been in that a long time
and then you had to turn and do

1036
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,360
that.
So they they put you in a very

1037
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,720
difficult, you probably had it
the worst really.

1038
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:04,680
I've done a player in there
actually just do everything.

1039
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,480
So I they said to me, I had the
complete experience and I was a

1040
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,360
faithful, I was a traitor.
You got locked in a dungeon.

1041
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,120
I did every mission and I did
the end game, which is the end

1042
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,800
mission, which is the fire pit
at the end.

1043
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,320
I was the only player, harried
it into half as I did and he won

1044
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:19,600
it.
I did everything so I had the

1045
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,040
full experience of you liked.
So it was tough.

1046
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,040
It was good.
You did.

1047
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:30,000
You had the full suite of of
teacher, so now you've become a

1048
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,560
voice for mental health for men.
Do you have men approaching you

1049
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,760
that you know are in
difficulties?

1050
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,320
Do you find that you have that
responsibility now to try and

1051
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,240
help these people?
Yeah, I speak to hundreds of

1052
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:46,280
thousands of people over the
last 18 months probably.

1053
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,840
And yeah, I like, I speak to
lots of women as well.

1054
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,960
Women emotions.
Women suffer the same as

1055
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,720
emotions from a trauma.
Trauma is a trauma depending on

1056
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,640
the para or sex.
Trauma is a trauma.

1057
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,400
And I got lots of women reaching
out to me who've got young boys.

1058
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,120
Perhaps the dad isn't around
forever.

1059
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,480
Reason.
So they reach out to me, to the

1060
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,960
young children.
They want advice, support about

1061
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,640
their drug people, their sport,
about their schooling.

1062
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,400
So I get lots of women reaching
out to me as well, speaking

1063
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,480
about their children.
Yeah, I get a lot of it is a lot

1064
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,080
of I speak to people all the
time.

1065
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,720
But but I say, I say to people
straight to me.

1066
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:18,760
I'm not a qualified camper or a
therapist or something.

1067
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,080
They say to me, I don't care.
I just want to speak to somebody

1068
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,640
who's been through something,
come out the other side.

1069
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,120
They want to know how you've
overcome that.

1070
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,840
I don't want to speak to an
academic or a counselor.

1071
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,680
I want to speak to somebody
normal, who's relatable, who's

1072
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,600
got to live with experience as
he lived.

1073
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,640
It's really powerful these days,
just my car.

1074
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,560
If you've had cancer, if you've
had a stroke, whatever you

1075
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,000
lived, this is people listen.
It gives you credibility.

1076
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,800
People listen to you.
Like myself after the accident,

1077
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,480
I refuse.
I noticed they, they say my

1078
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,760
life, for example, but an
academic, I didn't want to speak

1079
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,200
an academic.
How do they know how I'm

1080
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,280
feeling?
They've read a text for five

1081
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,360
years.
They haven't been to me.

1082
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,880
They don't know how I'm feeling.
I would have smoked somebody

1083
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,800
who's been through something, a
car crash or something because

1084
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,240
they they would have stood where
I was coming from and they would

1085
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:07,400
listen to me, empathize to me.
And that's what people say to

1086
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,040
me, I guess.
So many national people say I

1087
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,080
want to speak to somebody who's
been through something, came up

1088
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,320
the other side is all crashing.
I do.

1089
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,360
I do speak to people too much.
I speak all the time and fucking

1090
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,800
people.
So what are the common themes,

1091
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,960
you know, what are people
typically going through that

1092
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,400
come to you?
Just also, in case someone's

1093
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,320
listening, you know, what are
the sorts of things that people

1094
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,280
are suffering with that you
found the most common?

1095
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,000
What is the lack of confidence
or self belief?

1096
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,600
A lot of reason or if you've got
a trauma, you know, people ever

1097
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,360
lose their confidence sometime
in their life.

1098
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,880
It doesn't be a car accident.
It's gotta you do it whether

1099
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,080
they lost their job or you
through a divorce.

1100
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:45,880
And you do lose a bit of
confidence sometimes.

1101
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,160
And I read people who talk to me
a lot about, you know, belief

1102
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,320
and self belief or confidence
and self worth a lot do they say

1103
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,160
if you're lost in life at the
moment, you don't believe in

1104
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,000
themselves anymore, They've lost
their confidence.

1105
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,640
I speak a lot of people around,
the biggest one for trauma.

1106
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,520
And you know, you spoke earlier
about your mum.

1107
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,080
I mean, that's, that's a dark,
no one wants to lose their mum.

1108
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:16,880
It's a horrible, horrible thing.
And tell us a little bit about

1109
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,760
how you process that, you know,
because people are losing people

1110
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,400
they love.
And how do you how do you

1111
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:28,440
process that grief?
Listen, not cold.

1112
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,760
I love her mother bits and also
my mother was a matriarch of the

1113
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,240
family.
She was the boss of the family.

1114
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:36,440
She was only about four for 10.
All of her, all of her boys were

1115
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,200
powered over when she spoke.
We all listened.

1116
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,520
She was the boss in the
household.

1117
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,680
She was the the the main person
in the house and the strength.

1118
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,640
That's where I get my strength
from me and my mother.

1119
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,440
But I've done a lot of work over
the last two years on mindset,

1120
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,440
lead framing, mindset, these
framing things and, and this

1121
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,200
sounds through, oh, whatever
now, but there's a lot of

1122
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,280
reasonable spiritual things
about frequencies, vibrations

1123
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,160
and all this sort of thing.
I believe my mother still would

1124
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,520
be in some capacity.
Her spirit is, she might have

1125
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,760
left her physical body, her
vessel, her spirit is still with

1126
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,280
me and I feel it sometimes.
I did a talk up in Leeds, a big

1127
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,280
talk, a big conference, and I
did, it was genius.

1128
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,800
After my mother passed, I'd send
my slides over a few weeks

1129
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,360
before that.
And one of the slides was me, my

1130
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,040
mother and my son.
The whole point on that slide is

1131
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,520
to spend time with people.
Don't take time to people for

1132
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,920
granted.
And I didn't.

1133
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,200
I forgot.
So I was standing up in front of

1134
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,400
the big audience.
I started, I clicked with the

1135
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,600
clicker, the picture came on the
screen behind.

1136
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:32,040
Me.
Oh no.

1137
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,920
The voice felt a bit funny.
The voice felt a bit funny.

1138
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,920
I felt a bit.
All of a sudden I felt really

1139
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,880
warm.
I felt really warm, as if

1140
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,320
somebody put their arm around
me, as if I felt somebody had.

1141
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,400
And I went.
I felt really calm, but I felt a

1142
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,160
bit, I felt my voice got a bit
funny.

1143
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,080
All of a sudden.
It was like my mother had her

1144
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,600
arm around me and said, come on,
boy, you've got this good.

1145
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,520
Oh.
It's really emotional.

1146
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,000
I went this felt really calm and
they carried on talking there in

1147
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,120
front of the audience and I did
tell the audience and I saw my

1148
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,880
mum passed away three days ago.
This is what you're doing with

1149
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,720
this talk.
It was only three days ago, you

1150
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:05,480
know, we thought he was booked
in a long time and I was the

1151
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,800
main speaker so I couldn't
cancel it and I't see it.

1152
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,400
So I know grief is actually
different for every single

1153
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,760
person.
I was diagnosed with grieving

1154
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,400
after the accident because I
refused to get a professional.

1155
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,760
But then 15 years after the
accident, I actually went to

1156
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,240
sitcom for the first time ever.
And she said to me after the

1157
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:25,680
first session, I know what's
wrong with you.

1158
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,320
And I said, what's up?
GST profession?

1159
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,480
Yeah, you've got them.
No, you're grieving.

1160
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,480
I didn't know much about it back
then.

1161
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,240
I do workshops.
And I said, what do you mean

1162
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:35,240
grieving?
That's when you die.

1163
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,680
And she was young as you've got
a dying degree.

1164
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,480
She was the loss of my it's only
I'm hearing of these days.

1165
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,200
I used to be rugby.
I used to do this.

1166
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,600
I used to grieve in the old
Andrew.

1167
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,960
She said to me people grieve all
the time.

1168
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,520
Every single people person
grieves.

1169
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,440
They don't really like to do
that.

1170
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,120
Anyone lose a big project in
work, for example, it's 10

1171
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,200
different project.
Work doesn't come off ask

1172
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,000
grieving.
If you change the part it's in

1173
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,840
work to different apartments.
Ask grieving retire from work is

1174
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,640
grieving lose a sporting career.
And she said people when they

1175
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,120
have children leave so they
can't go out as much.

1176
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:07,720
And I want as much money, as
much freedom as you grieve in

1177
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:09,440
their own life.
So why do I talk?

1178
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,560
I want to talk about grieving.
I can see people in the audience

1179
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,640
thinking, oh, I must have been
grieving.

1180
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,800
I lost my job or I got divorced
and I stepped away from my

1181
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,640
partner.
All grief is is the emotional

1182
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,120
reaction to the loss of any
kind.

1183
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,960
So I was grieving after the
accident.

1184
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,080
So in regards to my mother, I
tried to reframe it.

1185
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,360
So I would say in this member,
of course I do, but I tried to

1186
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,400
think about the 47 good years I
spent with my mother.

1187
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,120
Rather than focus on negatives
from people when they grieve,

1188
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,320
they focus on the fact they're
never going to see that person

1189
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,640
again.
They're never going to see that

1190
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,760
person again.
I know it's different for them.

1191
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,120
We're not politically anything,
that's all.

1192
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,680
But with me, I try to think
right, think of the Goodman,

1193
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,400
think of the good 47 years that
I spent my mother, happy

1194
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,920
memories when she used to put in
bed to read the story every

1195
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,680
night and I put a smile on my
face.

1196
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,960
I try to focus on the positives
rather than focus on the

1197
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,880
negatives.
It's easy to focus on the

1198
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,720
negatives and spiral in a Park
Place for days and days or weeks

1199
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:00,640
and months.
And my dad is speaking at the

1200
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,800
moment.
They've been 62 years, married

1201
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,040
58 years.
So they know she knows he knows

1202
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,640
different to us.
They were like joined together.

1203
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:13,120
Yes, joined together.
Yeah, so he's really struggling.

1204
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,600
He's quite angry and bitter at
the moment.

1205
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,560
He's struggling with life,
day-to-day life.

1206
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,200
He's struggling with, whereas,
you know, my three brothers I

1207
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,040
think all seem OK.
I'm trying to think of keep

1208
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,600
myself positive and happy.
I think I know my mother's still

1209
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,440
watching me.
Wherever she is, she's watching

1210
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,440
me and I hope she's proud of
what I'm doing, the work I'm

1211
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,880
doing.
Yeah.

1212
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,200
And keeping an eye on people
around you that are grieving

1213
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,400
because maybe they don't have
the strength because The thing

1214
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,400
is.
So the, the good thing about

1215
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,520
this, what you've just said is
that all the things that your

1216
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,080
mum taught you, the strength
that you've got from her, it

1217
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,280
stays with you.
That's going to live on you.

1218
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,000
You're here.
She's with you via the strength.

1219
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,520
And you said the warm feeling
and everything you've got that

1220
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,120
you've got all those memories
and you've got her behavior

1221
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,440
that's literally living on
within you.

1222
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,840
But there are also people that
don't know how to cope with that

1223
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,560
grief and it gets overwhelming
and they might not have the

1224
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,000
mechanisms in place.
And it's just also keeping an

1225
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,040
eye on.
Yeah, yeah, just the people

1226
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,280
around you and making sure that
they don't slip down that really

1227
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,480
dark as.
Soon as anything with mental

1228
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,280
health or anything really would
well be the mental health.

1229
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,200
You're always going to check in
on people and if you're serious

1230
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,280
it will well be the mental
health.

1231
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:25,200
You've got to check in on
people.

1232
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,680
We all spend 1020 thirty minutes
a day doing scrolling on your

1233
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,840
mobile phone, Instagram or
whatever you look at.

1234
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:33,440
We haven't got 5 minutes tablets
to bring your best mate.

1235
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,200
Most of the time you know
something he's going through

1236
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,840
something whether it could be
terminal illness.

1237
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,840
Also job preparation just
checking about person it takes 2

1238
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,520
minutes to pick up the phone or
even text.

1239
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,960
I mean to say how you feeling?
I'm hearing of you everything

1240
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,480
okay my simple text be the
difference than taking their own

1241
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,960
life or not.
I know I might sound aware

1242
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,560
harsh.
It's true.

1243
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,880
It's true that one a person who
sat in their house isolated.

1244
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,000
They're lonely, lonely around
them for days and that taxi for

1245
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,680
the first time anybody's spoken
to them for days or weeks.

1246
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,400
Sometimes that could be the
difference between them taking

1247
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,520
their own life and not and it's
as simple as that.

1248
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,560
They're checking on people that
care people who care about loved

1249
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,880
ones were colleagues they're
checking on them.

1250
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,160
The simple text, you know, just
you're checking it OK.

1251
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,200
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't going to,
I wasn't planning to say this,

1252
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,400
but I had a a personal trainer
that I worked with for a few

1253
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,760
years actually.
And he had some, you know, he

1254
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,440
was suffering from some mental
health issues or whatever, but

1255
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,440
he's, he was actually also
tougher rugby guy, sporting

1256
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,040
background, you know, and then
he had an injury.

1257
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,840
And it's like you're saying you
were talking about the grief of

1258
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,600
your identity that that bit's
now gone and you can't do all

1259
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,800
the sport and not on the level
that you wanted to do.

1260
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,680
And suddenly you're stripped of
this identity.

1261
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:57,760
And he found that really hard,
you know, and during COVID, you

1262
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,520
know, everyone was sort of cut
off and he wasn't able to see

1263
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,880
his, his, I mean, he was seen a
counsellor, like a therapy

1264
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,760
person, you know, someone that
could, you could talk to

1265
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,960
regularly in person that could
help him.

1266
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,520
And that was all cut off.
And he did reach out with a

1267
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,400
message saying, you know, you
know, I'm finding it quite

1268
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,840
tough, you know, this, this
whole COVID thing.

1269
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,280
And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
it's tough.

1270
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,240
You know, hopefully we'll get
back to things soon.

1271
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,360
He never got back to things
soon, unfortunately.

1272
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,000
And it's that haunts me.
I sort of think, you know, it's

1273
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,680
like you're saying that message
when when someone someone's it's

1274
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,960
a cry for help, isn't it?
A lot of the time, some tries to

1275
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,360
take their own life.
They don't.

1276
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,960
Most of the time they don't mean
to take their own life.

1277
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:41,600
They're just to cry for help a
lot of the time.

1278
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,840
And it's like people, like you
said, their identity and people

1279
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,480
in the forces, they've been
institutionalized for 20-30

1280
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,160
years and they come out to the
forces and they can't deal with

1281
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,480
life.
And sports people, anybody who's

1282
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:54,520
been in their career a long
time.

1283
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,920
And the policemen find they all
of a sudden they leave their

1284
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,560
identity and they really
struggle with that.

1285
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,720
And also, I know people, you
know, people see those those who

1286
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,000
are going to close laws.
Sometimes people the biggest

1287
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,720
smiles on their faces, the
nicest houses or the nicest cars

1288
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,320
are struggling the most.
Lots of, you know, a lot of

1289
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,960
CEOs, for example, who are it's
a high pressure job, again, can

1290
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,760
be quite lonely.
Who do they talk to?

1291
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,240
They work it's hours stressed.
They got, you know, 103 hundred,

1292
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,280
200 people to look after, you
know, and it's a high pressure

1293
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,080
job.
And we've got these nice, these

1294
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,760
nice jobs gave us a standard of
living.

1295
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:29,960
I mean, so you can't really take
a step back.

1296
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,240
And sometimes then they take,
there's so much pressure on them

1297
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,200
anyway, how they think is take
their life.

1298
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,120
Unfortunately, there were lots
of people last year, a few

1299
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,880
people who've earning great
salaries in London, for example,

1300
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,520
earning 6 figures, but have
married children, good job, good

1301
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,560
car, wife isn't working or
whatever.

1302
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,480
So they're so they're so
pressure, they're so they're so

1303
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,720
scared to tell their wives or
whatever the truth.

1304
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,400
They can't move back.
They can't, you know, they have

1305
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,600
a certain life, pilot dinners
all the time, holidays they

1306
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,760
scare to help you with the truth
and you know when they came.

1307
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,400
I know people in their 40s are
taking their own life over the

1308
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,080
last two years, two people.
Well, so the last year on the

1309
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,520
outside looks like a perfect
life, but it's a high pressure

1310
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,560
job at the top in London earning
money and they can't, they can't

1311
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,400
see a way out because that's the
only way out is their life,

1312
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,200
which is starved really.
It's, it's, the pressures are

1313
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,480
real.
And, and so basically, I, I

1314
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,040
would, I would actually say that
almost everyone virtually

1315
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,520
listening to this podcast is
going to be dealing with

1316
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,120
something feeling a bit stuck,
maybe feeling a bit broken or

1317
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,200
worrying about someone really
close to them feeling stuck or

1318
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,400
broken.
So based on, I mean, we've,

1319
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:42,800
we've spoken a lot about all of
this.

1320
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,880
And I thank you so much for, for
coming on the podcast and

1321
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:51,200
sharing your story with us.
What would you tell these

1322
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,360
people?
How would you advise them what

1323
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,160
to do next?
You know, if anyone's feeling a

1324
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,280
bit lost.
Oh, it's a big question.

1325
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:04,360
Yeah, I know it's so easy.
It's easy because it took me 15

1326
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,280
years to talk to someone.
But I said, and one thing I

1327
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,320
said, he's talk and open up to
someone.

1328
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,080
It hasn't got to be
professional.

1329
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,480
It could be a work colleague, a
friend, a family.

1330
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,800
He bought all my feelings up for
many, many years and made myself

1331
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,720
ill.
I thought as a man, I couldn't

1332
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:20,920
open up and talk.
Women as well, You know, women

1333
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,600
high crashing, a lot of
successful women, they probably

1334
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:24,840
find it hard to talk as well.
But.

1335
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,200
And the people around me will
think exactly the same.

1336
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,080
They won't judge or treat very
differently.

1337
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,600
Like when if I found out my best
mate was struggling or took his

1338
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,920
own life, for example, he
couldn't come and talk.

1339
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,760
I feel terrible that he couldn't
come and talk to me.

1340
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,600
When we want to talk, you think
people will judge us

1341
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,080
differently?
They won't.

1342
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,480
I said just be brave, be
courageous, take that first step

1343
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,640
and talk to somebody.
Don't bottle things up because

1344
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,800
when you bottle things up, it's
spirals.

1345
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,600
I'm a huge, a huge believer in
prevention is better than cure.

1346
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,560
Once we're in this country,
we're very reactive and very

1347
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,920
proactive and somebody tries to
take no life, they'll help them.

1348
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,400
And somebody obese give an
injection.

1349
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,720
It's bad.
I think no give people the tools

1350
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,840
or the education months or years
before up again that far.

1351
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,880
Like why in schools why do we
teach our children?

1352
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,400
But APS candidates when they
leave school, you know if they

1353
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,000
borrow money it's going to cost
them X amount of pounds.

1354
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,480
Why do we teach you more
calories in calories out?

1355
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,920
So if they eat more calories
than E they're going to put

1356
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,720
weight on.
Why do we teach you about how to

1357
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,320
regulate their feelings and
emotions?

1358
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,120
Not saying teaching only
counsellors or therapists to

1359
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,000
become a basic understanding of
their emotions.

1360
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,920
At the moment this country is
spending millions of pounds or

1361
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,680
billions of pounds of obesity.
Suicides are going up and debt

1362
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,160
is costing the country billions
of pounds.

1363
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,680
So why do we teach the people
them three things life skills

1364
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,760
rather than teaching about
Pythagoras senior and more or

1365
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,840
King Harold in 1066.
Why do we teach people life

1366
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,560
skills?
They can actually you from a new

1367
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,800
school, not knocking school.
The curriculum is 100 is

1368
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,680
updating your time, but he's
updating to the real life.

1369
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,320
Now to be honest with you by
saying please speak to someone

1370
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,640
and talk to someone.
If you're struggling with

1371
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,240
anything at all but how big or
small it is, please talk to

1372
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:05,840
somebody.
That's the big tip I can give

1373
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,720
you.
I love that and I feel like it

1374
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:12,120
brings us right back to the
first question, which I had

1375
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,200
about your walking or not being
able to walk and you having

1376
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:20,520
taken that first step.
And that's really the lesson to

1377
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,680
anyone suffering and going
through anything.

1378
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,800
Take that step, have that
conversation one step at a time.

1379
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,800
Andrew.
It's been an absolute pleasure.

1380
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:31,840
Thank you very much.
Thank.

1381
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:32,960
You so much.