The Anxiety Paradox: Why Fighting Panic Makes It Worse

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Heart pounding, chest tight,
sweaty palms mind racing, Can't

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breathe but you can't explain
why.

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Here's a great skill.
Let me show you a super fast

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There's a secret point.
Anxiety.

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Josh knows that feeling.
He's lived it, studied it, and

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now helps millions like you and
I to understand what's really

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going on inside our minds when
we feel anxious and how to

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really manage it.
Oh, this worked for a bit, but

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now it's back.
And then this worked for a bit

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and now it's back.
So yeah, because we still fear

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that response.
We still fear the thoughts.

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You have to teach the brain and
the body that anxiety, albeit

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uncomfortable, is actually OK
to.

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Get my head around bed.
I will represent all of the

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anxious people of today, OK?
I'm going to let all the

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audience's anxiety come to me,
and I will be the vessel to find

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out how we deal with this
ginormous thing, anxiety before

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I do so.
Your long name is very nice,

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Joshua, right?
But you also called anxiety Josh

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or just Josh.
What do you prefer?

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My name's Josh.
My on my birth certificate is

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Joshua.
Joshua.

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Or if it's on the book I've
written, it's Joshua.

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Sounds better.
Or if you're my mum.

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Yeah, I was going to say we get
told off Joshua.

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Yeah, that's.
About it, yeah, yeah.

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And then?
Yeah.

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Yeah, and I go off by anxiety
Josh on on socials and stuff.

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It's such a good name, Anxiety
Josh.

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I love that.
Yeah, we kind of kind of, you

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know, infers that I'm anxious
all the time and it's not, it's

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not true.
It's.

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Implies so you've got such a
calm, wonderful energy about

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you.
But yes, your anxiety healing,

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Josh.
That's how we'll we'll refer to

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you in this podcast.
You're also a psychotherapist,

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so you come qualified to speak
on anxiety.

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Let's let's just put this
declaration into the pod so

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people get it.
Yeah, it's my field that I, my

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niche of psychotherapy that I
specialized in, particularly the

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world full of misinformation and
nonsense online and, you know,

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self optimization, quick hacks,
all these kind of things.

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Yeah.
I like to bring, you know,

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science empirically backed.
Yeah, advice for people who

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struggle with anxiety.
Yes.

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And for this podcast I will not
bring anyone to speak on a

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subject unless they are fully
qualified, trained and expert in

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that subject because I can't
stand the noise and people

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pretending.
And it's so dangerous as well

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when you have all these people
and they sound so commanding

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when they advising you, but
actually they have no background

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in that, no training 0.
Just speak.

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Well, yeah.
And there's always something to

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sell at the end of it as well,
you know, commodifying people's

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vulnerabilities.
It's.

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Really scary.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's very

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frustrating.
You just got to be very careful

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with what you get.
You're also a recognized

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authority, so you're a Ted X
speaker.

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You're a best selling author.
You do your own pods and things

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you'd guessed in other people's
pods.

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So you're pretty, you know, you
put yourself out there and you

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speak on the subject a lot, so
it's fabulous.

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Yeah, yeah, I'd like to
pontificate about it from time

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to time.
Yeah, no, it's really lovely.

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Lovely to hear you and you are
as you are the trusted voice in

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mental health.
You know, you are someone with

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your qualifications that we can
now listen to and ask.

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I'm going to come to you from
the point of view of the public

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and we'll get some genuinely
good answers from you.

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OK, on the topic of.
That's high hopes getting

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genuinely good answers from me.
We're going to get genuinely

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good answers from you.
We're going to get genuinely.

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So let's OK, so I did watch your
TE DX talk as well.

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So I know a little bit more
about you, let's say, but but

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for those who don't know, can
you tell us like your anxiety

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journey, because you've got a
personal anxiety journey.

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So can just for people to
understand, we'll put it into

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context how it came about that
you suffered with anxiety and

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then you've gone into working to
help people and you do help

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people with anxiety.
Yeah.

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So when in my young 20s, I found
the difference out between what

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is conventional anxiety and an
anxiety disorder.

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I think we all get anxiety.
It's a normal, healthy human

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emotion and function within us.
But yeah, in my young 20s, I

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experienced something called
dissociation and panic.

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And it was after prolonged
stress and that that kind of

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made me become agoraphobic.
So I couldn't leave the house.

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I was obsessed with how I felt
something intrusive thoughts.

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I was having panic attack after
panic attack after panic attack,

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and I was scared of how I felt.
And that's what initially, you

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know, the first step on the path
to being a therapist was that,

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wow, this is actually really
scary.

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A lot of people say, you know,
oh, I don't get anxiety or I

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know what anxiety is like or
whatever.

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But you know you've got an
anxiety disorder when almost

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every day is consumed by worry,
weird symptoms and an obsession

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with how you feel, and it's
really debilitating.

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Yeah.
So I was going to ask you how

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well, how did you know you were
having like a panic attack

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moment?
How did you know that that is a

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panic attack?
I didn't at the time.

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That's what made it scary.
You know, you think a panic

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attack is something that you see
on Netflix or something.

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Yeah.
Like someone, like,

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hyperventilating.
And then you'd think it'd be

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obvious, but it's not.
The the whole point of a panic

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attack is to make you doubt that
you know your safety and

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something bad's going to happen.
So most people who have panic

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attacks will fall for the what
ifs of what if I'm dying, What

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if I have a heart attack?
What if I lose control?

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What if I humiliate myself?
What if I collapse stuff,

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something like that.
Because your brain's firing off

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the threat response 10 out of
10.

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But it's usually in a situation
that doesn't merit that level of

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anxiety.
And So what happens is the

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cognitive brain just starts to
give suggestions as to where the

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danger might be.
But if you're in the supermarket

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or out for dinner and you're
having that, we know that's not

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dangerous.
So it goes inwards.

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And panic attacks are very much
like, well, maybe something

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really bad's going to happen to
you.

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And then that can go with so
many symptoms.

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So is it like, so is it like
you're having, you feel like

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you're having a heart attack or
something or like what, what's

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physically happening to your
body?

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It's different for everyone.
The main symptoms of a panic

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attack are yes, your heart can
race, but not all the time.

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An intense feeling to escape or
something awful is going to

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happen.
Dissociation so you suddenly

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don't feel like in the room and
objects look weird and you're

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you don't feel like you're in
your body.

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Difficulty catching your breath,
air, hunger, sweating, stomachs

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going, nausea, Lightheadedness.
That's a lot of them.

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And then racing thoughts like
intense racing.

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Can I ask you a question?
When I was a kid and I had to do

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AI, had to write in maths, this
was like for in in South Africa

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matric finals, I had to write a
maths exam and I hated maths.

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I still hate maths, really hate
maths.

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And I was sitting there and I
was dreading it so much and then

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when I looked on the page I
could no longer see the shapes

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in that geometry exam.
Was that a panic attack?

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That's high anxiety.
Yeah, it just became.

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Yeah, that's high anxiety, Yeah,
because our fight or flight

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response is designed to focus
for predators.

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And so it's very common for our
focus to be out.

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So your threat responses
confused usually with your

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imagination or whatnot, and then
you look down at the paper and

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you know it's out of focus take.
A moment.

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Yeah, before I was able to.
It could be panic, it could be

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or just high anxiety.
High anxiety, I mean, that's the

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thing like how do you know which
is my next question.

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What is the actual difference
between everyday anxiety and an

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anxiety disorder like and what
like what's the definition of a

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disorder?
Does it mean that you can't

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function properly in the in the
daily life or with that

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distinction?
You know it's an anxiety

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disorder when it does start to
consume your life and you can't

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do what non anxious you would
like to do or you feel.

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Like you can't what non anxious
you would like to do?

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Yeah, so you would avoid.
You don't feel like your usual

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self.
You are ruminating on worries.

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You think that something's
really wrong with you.

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You've been bombarded with
intrusive thoughts.

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You're not getting joy out of
things and that consumes you.

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Whereas it's also cyclical and
feels interminable, whereas

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everyone gets anxiety.
And because usually as an end

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result, I'm worried about my
exam, I'm worried about the

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dentist, I'm worried about date.
But when that's done, the

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anxiety switches off.
An anxiety disorder is like an

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endless loop because it doesn't
have a resolution.

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But but, Josh, what if you're
born anxious?

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Everyone's born anxious.
Everyone has everyone.

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Everyone.
Yeah, of course it is.

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You know, born anxious even
though this dude in South

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Africa, my dad grew up in South
Africa.

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Everyone has, everyone has
anxiety.

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Yeah, it's.
True, right?

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Literally everyone.
Everyone's got anxiety.

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Let's be perfectly clear about
this.

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Because it's your threat
response.

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Everyone has a threat response.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Some people react in fight
response.

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Some people react in flight,
some people freeze, and some

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people people please inform.
But we all have a threat

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response, so we all have
anxiety.

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Oh my gosh, I love that.
That's so liberating, that is.

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And when someone says.
The best thing I've ever heard.

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When someone says I don't get
anxiety, the lying is

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physiologically impossible.
That is freeing.

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Yeah.
Never imagined that before.

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They might not struggle with it
all the time, but there'll be

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times in their life where
they're anxious, yeah, you know,

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but over something, you know,
public speaking, the birth of

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the child, you know, an upcoming
job interview, surgery,

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whatever.
They'll be anxious in some way.

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Just for some people it's not as
prominent and it's more socially

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acceptable.
Not as prominent And some people

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admit to it and some people
won't or some people don't mind

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saying, look, anxiety is a part
of my identity and some people

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will be like, well, I don't get
anxious.

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But but all of us, is what
you're saying.

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All of us get anxious.
To varying levels, yeah.

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That I love that so much.
OK and on that, is it one in

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five that developed the actual
disorder version?

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So the version where it's now
really throwing things off.

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Yeah, one in five of us.
I mean, that's as a result of,

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like a big meta study in America
where, yeah, one in five adults

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will at some point in their life
experience chronic debilitating

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anxiety that falls under an
anxiety disorder bracket.

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So that could be panic disorder.
The most commonly diagnosed 1 is

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generalized anxiety.
Then you've got things.

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What is generalized anxiety is
just it's.

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Just when you find yourself
anxious a lot of the day, often

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for no identifiable reason, then
you've got OCD, which I

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specialize in, and and social
anxiety.

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There's things like that.
There's loads and since COVID a

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lot of people have health
anxiety as well, which yeah,

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I've.
Been I've been guilty of health

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anxiety.
OK stress jug.

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Can you explain what is this
whole stress jug thing?

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The stress jug is is an analogy
that I pinched.

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It's not original, but I use it
to explain how excessive stress

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then can create disorder and
anxiety.

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OK, so everything goes in our
stress jug.

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So, you know, it could be daily
things, work, parenting, you

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know, just maintaining a house,
relationships, whatever that

228
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,960
goes in the jug.
Then there's things that have

229
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,360
probably been in there for a
while.

230
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,600
You know, maybe you're grieving,
maybe you've gone through

231
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,440
something horrible, maybe you've
got unprocessed trauma, and then

232
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,520
you've got other things like
things happening in the world,

233
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,480
day to news, day-to-day stress.
And when that fills it up, the

234
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,680
threat response, which is one of
the oldest parts of our brain,

235
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,680
involves the amygdala in our
brain.

236
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,320
I believe that it's
misinterprets all of the stress

237
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,720
because it doesn't get it.
It's older than our thinking

238
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,000
brain.
It can just see that we're

239
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,080
stressed.
So it steps in to try and help,

240
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,560
but all it can do is release
adrenaline and cortisol and most

241
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:35,120
things because it thinks there's
a threat.

242
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:35,920
So it's.
Pumping.

243
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,040
It's literally pumping you with.
With yeah, and and it's the

244
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,480
last.
Thing called hormones.

245
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,000
It's the last thing you need as
well.

246
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,120
Yeah, it's making you wired and
like hyper and freaking out and

247
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,080
all that sort of thing.
Yeah, and and if you're someone

248
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,040
who's like, you know, proud or
ashamed or doesn't want to have

249
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,680
any, you know, I keep a distance
from mental health narratives

250
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,320
that is particularly troublesome
people like that.

251
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,360
And I, I just tried to keep
things simple, like, and this is

252
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,720
like, OK, let's see what this
means maybe.

253
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,160
And I'll say to clients what's
been happening in in your life

254
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,600
recently, Let's see the stress
jug.

255
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,720
And then almost every time
that's like really full, it's

256
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:14,560
overflowing.
Yeah.

257
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:15,640
Yeah.
Because often people say, oh,

258
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,520
panic attacks come from nowhere
and.

259
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,040
Do they?
I they, they feel like they do,

260
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,760
but when you look back and look
at the stress jugular, actually

261
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:25,880
this was coming.
OK.

262
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,640
Can I just ask you about a
particular panic attack or like

263
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,400
a feeling of really like on the
Tube?

264
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,240
For example, if the Tube train
Underground, London Underground,

265
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,000
for anyone who's been on it,
it's really scary when that

266
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760
underground stops between
stations and then you've got all

267
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,280
these people and it's really hot
and it's like, you know, and

268
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,600
then you're in there for some
time and then no one say

269
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,840
anything and then you feel a
sense of panic.

270
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,720
I mean, I don't know how many
people have experienced this,

271
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,360
but not many people are going to
say they don't mind being stuck

272
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,600
underground for an unlimited
amount of time in a packed.

273
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,200
No.
It's.

274
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,400
It's very common, yeah, very
common.

275
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,800
I, I don't like that feeling
either, particularly if you're

276
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,080
sensitive to being quite to
claustrophobia and things like

277
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:08,800
that.
Feeling trapped.

278
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,560
I hate feeling trapped.
It's horrible.

279
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,640
Yeah.
And some people will deal with

280
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,480
it fine because they've probably
been trapped in the tube several

281
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,520
times, you know, and delayed in
the tube rather than trapped.

282
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,120
But yeah, that's a feeling that
that often feels like, you know,

283
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,880
the beginning of a panic
sometimes, you know?

284
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,640
I'm just wondering if that's
normal.

285
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,680
It's really normal, Yeah, yeah,
absolutely.

286
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,880
Like loads of people in that
that's.

287
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,520
The thing they do, don't they?
But we mask and things, don't

288
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:37,400
we?
Because I don't want to see

289
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,760
that.
So people bury themselves in

290
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,960
their phone or whatever and.
Oh, I hope you sort of.

291
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,680
I'll bring up the phone to look
at cute pictures of cats, dogs.

292
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,800
Yeah, but loads of other people
are doing that too.

293
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,720
Because it's horrible, because
you just don't know.

294
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,760
It's the, it's the unknown.
That's the, the thing you

295
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,400
mention the amygdala, amygdala.
Can you just explain the

296
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,080
amygdala properly?
Because it, it's just like, I

297
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,320
want to go into the science.
So we, we know that there's the

298
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,360
hormones and they're released
and we're still talking about

299
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,200
this.
But like, I feel it's, it's nice

300
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,000
to know the the mechanics of
what your body is doing because

301
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,600
then it doesn't feel like such a
it demystifies this whole stress

302
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,720
thing.
It's a real thing and it's.

303
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,760
Well, I keep it simple.
Obviously if you really, you

304
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,760
know, if if you sat down with a
neuroscientist and they were

305
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,280
like, well, actually there's 10
parts involved, but I keep it in

306
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:29,720
a simple way.
Are they really?

307
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,760
Yeah, the thalamus and things
like that.

308
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,920
But like, do you know, I just, I
just keep it simple.

309
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,160
So the amygdala is part of the
fear center of our of our

310
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,080
brains.
It's from the oldest parts of

311
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,280
our brains that's responsible
for threat.

312
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,360
Is it like your primitive brain?
People talk about a primitive

313
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,480
brain the most, Yeah.
It's one of the oldest parts,

314
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,080
and it's part of how we evolved
to be top of the food chain

315
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,400
because anxiety is actually what
makes us good predators.

316
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,000
You'd think what?
How does that make sense?

317
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,200
But but well, when we have
doubt, think of our ancestors.

318
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,040
Their amygdala was firing off
when you know, walking across

319
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:15,119
the Serengeti or through the
jungle or whatever and or across

320
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,560
the desert, whatever, if there
are amygdala fires or if it

321
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,640
creates doubt.
And then what do you do when you

322
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,680
doubt?
You start to look for danger.

323
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,640
So our ancestors really helpful
to look for danger and

324
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,440
anticipate danger before it
happens because we're human.

325
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,320
We're not going to fight lions
are not going to fight a bear

326
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,720
hand to hand.
I mean, I might feel an odd, but

327
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,560
in general, no.
But the evolutionary advantage

328
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,120
to be able to spot a threat
before it spots youth and sneak

329
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,200
around it and then use your
brain and then you could hunt

330
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,080
it, you know, even though you're
not stronger than that, you're

331
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,400
smarter than it.
The amygdala is part of that and

332
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,400
you can make sense.
So anxiety is part of the reason

333
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,400
why we're here.
It's not just a bad thing.

334
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,480
And the amygdala still, it
hasn't ever evolved.

335
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,560
So it just feels weird when you
sat at your desk or chilling

336
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,440
with your family or whatnot and
it's firing off.

337
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,880
It's the very same mechanism,
but because of social pressures

338
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,760
and things like that, it just
feels a bit odd having that.

339
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,680
Yeah, yeah, that.
It's doing.

340
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:19,360
Things that we know aren't
directly dangerous, but then

341
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,080
they are if we read the news
articles, because it could be, I

342
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,000
mean, this could it's like that,
that perceived danger because it

343
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,720
might be dangerous.
You know, there's all these

344
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,120
head.
I mean, I was reading the news

345
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:33,280
this morning and it's like,
honestly, yeah, I want to

346
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,720
quickly run and protect it.
Don't do that.

347
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,440
Don't do that.
Don't shoot down that thing.

348
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,280
Don't put spy ships out.
Don't, you know, don't, don't

349
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:40,240
kill people.
Don't.

350
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,840
Well, it takes in information
that you take and then and to

351
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,840
help it wire for threat.
You know, whether it's the news

352
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,280
or wherever, you know that's
what it is and that's what

353
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,680
conditions are threat response.
OK, so our ancestors wouldn't

354
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,440
have to then go home and deal
with the articles and then this

355
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,680
and that and then go on social
media and then they get

356
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,640
overwhelmed.
They would have that thing and

357
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,120
it would the the jug that you're
talking about would be, you

358
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,960
know, filled only that much
versus starting to.

359
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,000
Well, yeah, kind of.
I mean, it wasn't easy to live

360
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,400
back then, like a hunter
gathering and, you know, finding

361
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,520
shelter for the winter and
things like that and, you know,

362
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,120
no medicine or things like that.
But in general, yeah.

363
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:27,120
Like it's we have so much
information overload now.

364
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,120
The brain's processing a lot of
information is stressful, you

365
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,160
know, don't be surprised if that
makes you anxious or you can't

366
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,440
sleep at night because you've
just been bombarded, sensitive.

367
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,680
Yeah.
Your brain is filing away all

368
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,560
these, you know, all this
information.

369
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,600
And that takes a lot of energy
and, and creates stress.

370
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,680
Yeah.
Yeah, so you, so you're going

371
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,760
through the day and then maybe
for weeks and months and then

372
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,000
you get into bed and then and
then you sleep and then like

373
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,120
whatever, 2 AM, 3:00 AM, you
wake up because your mind is

374
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,000
like.
Think, Think.

375
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,120
Thinking.
Thinking, Thinking, thinking,

376
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,040
Thinking about the day.
What's that?

377
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,720
If you are focusing on what the
mind is thinking, thinking,

378
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,200
thinking, that's called
ruminating.

379
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,280
Ruminating.
Yeah, when you sit there and

380
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,200
your thoughts are just on loop
and you just.

381
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,520
If it's waking you up, you
should be sleeping.

382
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,760
Yeah, but attention is always
part.

383
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,360
This is what I do as a therapist
as well.

384
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:27,800
Attention is always part of our,
you know, we have agency in that

385
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,480
tension.
You know, we all have what if

386
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,960
thoughts, but we also have the
ability to channel our

387
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,320
attention.
But a lot of people just believe

388
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,280
their thoughts at face value.
What if that happens?

389
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,720
Oh yeah, that's true.
I'm going to just focus on that

390
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,200
thought now and try and work it
out.

391
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,440
That's called ruminating because
you're engaging with the

392
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,320
thought.
We have like 5000 different

393
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,000
thoughts a day.
Why are you giving yourself all

394
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,440
the attention to that one?
You know, and then you're

395
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,800
teaching the brain and the
threat response to that thought

396
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,200
is one, probable and two,
potentially dangerous.

397
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,720
And that's what I often do with
my clients.

398
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Why?
Why not focus on something else?

399
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,160
You know, it's difficult when
you're anxious because it's

400
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,640
convincing and, and you feel
doubtful.

401
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,560
But actually, you know, with all
the different thoughts that we

402
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,000
have, we still have agency in
the ability to control our

403
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,360
attention.
Yeah, because there's other

404
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,080
things that you can focus on,
which is which is definitely

405
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,560
possible.
You can shift focus that that's

406
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,120
especially if you've been
dragged in a direction.

407
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:34,120
But the mere the concept of
waking up because of thoughts

408
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:39,120
and then being awake with the
thoughts and then having, it's

409
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:43,680
almost like, like it it's, you
know, wakes you up quite

410
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,080
intensely and then you have to
sort of wait for the thoughts to

411
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,800
sort of calm down and then you
sleep.

412
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,840
Yeah.
So is that an anxiety?

413
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,360
Could be, yeah.
When we all have bad dreams, we

414
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:53,960
all have nightmares.
It wakes you up.

415
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:55,640
Depends on your relationship
with that.

416
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,640
Sometimes you just, you just do.
You can't stop thoughts.

417
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,720
But you can also also show the
brain that the thoughts are not

418
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,040
important and then wind back
down again.

419
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,520
Yeah.
Yeah, I've had actually some

420
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,040
some good things where if the
thoughts do wake me up, it's

421
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,080
things that I've forgotten
during the day and then I'll get

422
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,720
work and I'll be like, oh, I
didn't send the e-mail to that

423
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,360
person.
And it's it came to me 2:00 AM,

424
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,840
It's like, yeah.
It's classic, isn't it?

425
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,840
It's.
Annoying though because you're

426
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,760
trying to sleep and it's
dangerous if you don't sleep.

427
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,600
Yeah, but also, if you're a hard
worker and a perfectionist,

428
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,880
you'll be in 5th gear all day
and you don't teach the brain

429
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,040
and body, it's OK to shift down
the gears.

430
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,400
So if you're in 5th gear from
7:00 AM to 7:00 PM, don't

431
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,400
suddenly expect your body to go
into first gear when it's it's

432
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,400
been rusty all day.
If you're someone who's

433
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,120
constantly go, go, go, go, go,
go, go, graft, graft, graft,

434
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:49,520
graft, graft, you'll be in 5th
gear, you're more likely to burn

435
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,080
out.
You'll be in constant threat

436
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,880
mode because the stress drug's
full and ironically, you won't

437
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,080
be as productive.
You're chasing the illusion of

438
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,400
productivity.
Whereas if you work smart, look

439
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,600
after yourself, take breaks, do
properly ease the nervous

440
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,960
system, the irony is you
actually get more done.

441
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Yeah, it's the it's the hardcore
truth.

442
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,320
It's the hardcore truth.
I I definitely have more respect

443
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,880
for the whole concept, the
mental health stress.

444
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,120
I used to be very, very
dismissive actually of it.

445
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,040
Oh, come on, you know, I used to
be.

446
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,080
I'm not anymore because I've
learned the hard.

447
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,640
Way it's something I tried to
challenge, you know, like I, you

448
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,360
know, I'm not I wouldn't say I
was a soft lad.

449
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,320
You know, I grew up playing
rugby and boxing and football

450
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,760
and things like that quite a
lot, and I just think it's a

451
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,920
it's just an A it's just a an
aged cliche to just dismiss

452
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,840
those things now.
I think it's like the statistics

453
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,760
don't lie, like, you know, and
and the evidence doesn't lie.

454
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,200
These things exist.
And if your loved 1 was

455
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,840
struggling and here's you saying
oh that's a load of nonsense all

456
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,520
day, how's that going to make
your love one feel?

457
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,400
Yeah.
And also if you in denial about

458
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,800
it, then your body will let you
know, like your body will not

459
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,640
lie to you.
It will make you aware that the

460
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,080
stress is a thing because like
you were saying, the amygdala

461
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,720
and it's it this touches on all
these areas in your body and

462
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,360
it's a whole network and these
things start firing off and

463
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,080
there is a mega effect.
It's like a storm and it's like

464
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,520
it's like a hurricane forming in
the Atlantic.

465
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320
It sort of starts as just of
seemingly innocent, doesn't it?

466
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160
A little bit of wind.
It doesn't look too bad.

467
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,480
And then it's picks picks up
momentum and then it starts

468
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:40,840
picking up all the clouds with
it.

469
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,880
And by the time you know it, you
sucked into this horrible thing

470
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,160
and, and your body will send you
a message in the form of

471
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,040
whatever could be some other
thing, but it will send you the

472
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,480
message to go.
Yeah.

473
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,880
Often, Yeah, I mean, even my own
anxiety disorder was a message

474
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480
to say this.
This isn't sustainable.

475
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,600
Yeah, it's not sustainable.
You can't keep doing this.

476
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,160
Enough.
Enough.

477
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,880
Yeah.
So it shows up and it can show

478
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,080
up in different ways.
I'm reading here like headaches

479
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,720
or something.
People get manifest itself as

480
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,200
tension headaches.
And so many physical symptoms of

481
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:23,400
anxiety, headaches, migraines,
jaw tension, muscle twitches,

482
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,400
face twitches.
You ever had an eyelid twitch?

483
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,800
Yeah.
Yeah, those scalp band tightness

484
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,560
on the scalp, neck ache,
shoulders really hurt, chest

485
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,800
pain, chest tightness, chest
stretching, heart palpitations,

486
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,040
skipped heart beats, your
digestions off, diarrhea,

487
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,240
Constipation, feeling nauseous,
hair loss.

488
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,840
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure about the evidence

489
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,640
of hair loss.
Maybe if you've got a

490
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
pre-existing condition.
Yeah.

491
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,200
Pains, aches, pains, attention.
Honestly, it's just the list is

492
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,200
endless.
Eye floaters, Tinnitus.

493
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,840
I had those.
There's so many stress from

494
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,240
anxiety and anxiety.
Yeah.

495
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:04,840
The loop.
Yeah.

496
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,960
OK, fixing compulsions.
What are fixing compulsions?

497
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,600
So people who are chronically
anxious, you know, and they're

498
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,520
people that are like fixing
things.

499
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600
It's a good trait to have.
When you see a problem, you want

500
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,720
to fix it.
And we're humans, we do want to

501
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,520
fix it.
But when you see having anxiety

502
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,520
as something to fix, you just
end up irritating something that

503
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,960
needs to be left alone.
And that's why we're constantly

504
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,840
obsessed, particularly in the
Wellness sphere.

505
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,720
You know, 5 things you can do to
get rid of a feeling.

506
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,720
And these can be fixing
compulsion.

507
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,200
So I'll do this, I'll do deep
breathing in the morning.

508
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,080
I will do this.
I will ice bath, I will do all

509
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:51,880
these things.
And it's fair.

510
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,560
If you like the benefits of
that, that's OK.

511
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280
But if you're doing that to get
rid of anxiety, it's

512
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,600
counterproductive because you're
teaching the brain, the

513
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,480
amygdala, that anxiety is still
a threat.

514
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,480
You are literally fighting an
emotion.

515
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,000
As a therapist, I often
propagate the use of allowing

516
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,680
the emotion to teach the
amygdala that anxiety is not

517
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,440
dangerous.
Yes, uncomfortable.

518
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,320
You know, I've ended up in
hospital with panic attacks.

519
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:23,120
I know how uncomfortable it
feels, but you've got to

520
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,400
understand what you're actually
doing with the brain and what

521
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,120
you're teaching the brain there.
And social media and the

522
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,680
wellnessphere and podcasts and
all this stuff are just

523
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,440
bombarded with here's 50 things
you can do to get rid of a

524
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,760
feeling.
And I, I play the long game.

525
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,240
And that's a like, yeah.
And, and of all those 50 which

526
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,120
worked, you know?
Oh, interesting.

527
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,920
Yeah.
And then, you know, you're still

528
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,280
here.
Oh, this worked for a bit, but

529
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,160
now it's back.
And then this worked for a bit,

530
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,360
and now it's back.
It's like, yeah, because we

531
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,160
still fear that response.
We still fear the thoughts.

532
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,680
You have to teach the brain and
the body that anxiety, albeit

533
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,160
uncomfortable, is actually OK
to.

534
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,280
Get my head around that.
I literally I'm a fixer.

535
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:10,120
OK, so you're speaking to a
fixer.

536
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,520
Anxiety is actually OK and it's
normal and it's common.

537
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:21,240
And what you're saying is you've
got to teach yourself to be, you

538
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,000
can't be batting it away, trying
to breathe your way through it

539
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,360
and all that kind of thing.
Just actually get used to it

540
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,080
and, and and is it?
Don't pay too much attention to

541
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,320
it because you're making a grow
by giving it.

542
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Yeah, you're giving it more
important now, don't get me

543
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800
wrong.
Those things for stress, like if

544
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040
I feel stressed, I will
definitely breathe, breathe

545
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,640
mindfulness, things like that.
OK, OK, good.

546
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Definitely for stress.
Oh absolutely.

547
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,920
I had a hot bath last night.
It was really nice.

548
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,640
I'm stressed.
OK.

549
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,160
But when you're anxious and you
want to get rid of anxiety,

550
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,640
anxiety and you're scared, and
particularly if you've got an

551
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,440
anxiety disorder, which a lot of
people do, it's what are you

552
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,080
teaching the brain and teaching
yourself that when you're

553
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,760
anxious, you need to fix it?
What's that actually saying?

554
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,120
What's what's that saying to the
brain?

555
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,560
Yeah, you're confirming.
That you're broken.

556
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,120
Wow.
It's like you're not.

557
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,040
It's like you're sending this
feedback loop that I'm anxious I

558
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,360
must fix it.
So that implies that you're

559
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,160
broken and and then people
wonder why they end up in the

560
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,720
loop.
Gosh, that is a different way of

561
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,440
thinking about it.
It's almost like the correct way

562
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,640
of thinking about it.
Yeah, it's like the correct way,

563
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,320
but it's like.
It's something I had to get my

564
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,680
head around.
That's why I became a therapist,

565
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,240
because I did all the wrong
things.

566
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,840
And then I was like, oh, I get
it now.

567
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,600
I get it.
You got to wow that.

568
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,120
That makes sense why it's always
been around for so long.

569
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,080
I mean, I've just feel it's
massively empowering.

570
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,440
The very first thing you said
about how basically everyone has

571
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,280
this anxiety within them is
already that that helps to say,

572
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,920
OK, well then that's normal.
That means you're not broken

573
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,320
because everyone has it so.
Yeah, does.

574
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,960
It's not like an afflict, don't
get me wrong, you can get you

575
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,080
down.
It's not an affliction.

576
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,120
But like relating to what you
said about fixing compulsions,

577
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,120
it's like I often get clients
who sit opposite me in my

578
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,480
practice and I'm having a panic.
What do I do?

579
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,280
And I'll be like nothing, it's
not hurting you.

580
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:19,680
It will pass.
True.

581
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,520
Yeah.
When, when you don't do anything

582
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,840
during a panic attack, what gets
the credit?

583
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,720
Now, a lot of people when
there's high anxiety, they'll do

584
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,040
something or do a technique or
they'll grab something magic

585
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,040
and, and soothe or whatever.
And that's fine.

586
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,760
You know, there's no perfect way
of doing things.

587
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,880
But real progress with anxiety
and anxiety disorders occur when

588
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,000
you get the credit for anxiety
passing because you then realise

589
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,240
you're the coping technique.
Oh.

590
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,640
I love that.
That's that's the cornerstone

591
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,440
of.
You are the coping technique,

592
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,480
like you are the one.
Yes, I love that.

593
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,040
Yeah.
OK, OK, so we spoke of a few

594
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,680
things.
Now the breathing thing.

595
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,800
I do like the breathing after.
Yeah, breathing's great.

596
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,600
It's like just depends why
you're doing it.

597
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,200
If you're breathing because
you're stressed, great.

598
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,640
If you're breathing because
like, oh, I'm panicking and I

599
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,800
don't like it, then you're
teaching the brain something bad

600
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,080
that that feeling panicky is is
wrong.

601
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,760
I think you know, for, for like
we were talking earlier about

602
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,320
public speaking, something like
that.

603
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,280
If I don't want, you know,
before you go on a stage or

604
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,360
something like that, if you just
do the few long deep breaths, it

605
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,400
just settles you in.
So that just calm the heart, you

606
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,440
know, yes, we're excited, but
let's not get too excited

607
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,240
because otherwise your voice
gets, you know, that that kind

608
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,440
of thing.
So sometimes I'll use it like

609
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,480
that as a little tool sometimes.
Yeah.

610
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,280
Like an athlete takes, you know,
concentrates on their breathing

611
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,680
before performance, things like
that.

612
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,040
That's cool, Yeah.
OK.

613
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,120
And you mentioned mindfulness,
like what?

614
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,600
Again, this is another one I
have to get my head around.

615
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,120
What?
What is mindfulness like?

616
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,400
What on earth is this whole
thing and is it relevant?

617
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,480
Mindfulness often gets
misinterpreted.

618
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,280
People think mindfulness is
something that you do to clear

619
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,040
your head and be calm.
That's not mindfulness.

620
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,000
That can be the result of
mindfulness sometimes, but

621
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,080
mindfulness is observing the
present, both things around you

622
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,560
and your mind in the present.
But the keywords are without

623
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,280
judgement.
So why I like mindfulness when

624
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,600
done properly, is that you know,
if you have intrusive thoughts

625
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,960
or you have an internal critic
or whatnot, you're observing

626
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,840
your thoughts but without
judgement.

627
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,360
And then the more you do that,
the more you realize thoughts

628
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,000
are just thoughts.
I just place more important on

629
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:54,800
some over over others, usually
because thoughts are evocative.

630
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,560
But the more you practice
mindfulness 1 is kind of

631
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,000
grounding.
It brings you into the present.

632
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,080
So you're not just constantly in
the future or ruminating about

633
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,240
the past.
But it's a good practice to look

634
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,800
at things without judgement and
see things what they are.

635
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,120
I often say it enhances
metacognitive ability to observe

636
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,320
feelings, thoughts and emotions
as transient things.

637
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,240
But because if the moment you
get a thought and an emotion,

638
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,280
you just believe that at face
value, you know, that's not

639
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,080
representative of reality.
How many times have you

640
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,280
misinterpreted, I don't know, a
friend or a loved one and

641
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,960
they've said something and
you've gone, Oh my God.

642
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,200
But that actually got the wrong
end of the stick.

643
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,680
That's you believing that
thought and feeling straight

644
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,080
away.
Mindfulness is, you know, is a

645
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,720
practice that, yeah, it helps
you to stop, but also it's the

646
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,720
without judgement, observing
things in the present for what

647
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,920
they are.
And it helps you to stop anxiety

648
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,680
sometimes from snowballing
because you're like, oh, I've

649
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,240
observed that.
I don't like that thought.

650
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,720
OK.
You see it as a thing.

651
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,840
You know, you're starting to
remind me of a little bit.

652
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,480
If you don't mind me saying,
there's this Buddhist that I

653
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,920
follow because he gives.
I mean, I'm so not a meditation

654
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,000
kind of person because I find it
difficult to meditate, like

655
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,639
really difficult.
It's but he's quite nice the way

656
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,639
that he speaks and everything is
quite relaxing.

657
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,280
So when I'm in the bath, for
example, and I have to stay

658
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,199
there, then I will put his
YouTube videos on and he will

659
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,080
take you through this process of
like, Oh yes, constant, you

660
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,159
know, be comfortable.
And then and then think about

661
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,960
like listen to the noises around
you, you know, close listen to

662
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,960
those there an aeroplane and
then suddenly stop paying

663
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,639
attention to those.
And, and I think it's things

664
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,600
within your body as well.
And he goes further out and

665
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,600
further out and further out and
then brings you back in.

666
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,199
But when, when he's talking
about not if those thoughts are

667
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,400
coming, the thought comes to you
and then the thoughts like hello

668
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,480
thoughts.
And then you like let it be.

669
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,600
And then it comes again and it's
like, let it be.

670
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,640
And that's cool and everything.
It's sort of worked about 3

671
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,760
minutes from me in the bath.
And then the thoughts just kept

672
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,960
coming and I was like, OK, so
that's like, let it be, let it

673
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,960
be.
Let it be.

674
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,480
But that's still a good
meditation.

675
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,880
You think?
Yeah, you think.

676
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,160
And this is this is what?
People misinterpret mindfulness

677
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,000
and meditation as a fixing
compulsion.

678
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,520
Yes.
Because they think that the goal

679
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,800
of it is to be.
The best meditation I ever did

680
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,440
was to practice being with
symptoms and feelings I didn't

681
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,240
like.
And it was 30 minutes and I left

682
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:30,480
at the end of the meditation.
I was sweaty and panicky and all

683
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,400
that because I'd done 30 minutes
of doing what I always avoid.

684
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,440
And that's my feelings.
Had my thoughts so you.

685
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,520
Sat in that space and you.
That's a good meditation, Yeah.

686
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,440
Whereas people have the biggest
misnomer about meditation as you

687
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:46,840
think that you should be sitting
there.

688
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,440
Very calm.
No, it's not.

689
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,560
That's not mindfulness.
That's not meditation.

690
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,280
Meditation is you try to observe
without judgement.

691
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,960
So I did 30 minutes of trying to
observe without judgement.

692
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,160
Yeah, it does help.
Well, it helps.

693
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,600
It was exposure for me, exposure
to feelings I didn't like.

694
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,320
Now I can meditate and most of
them might end up calm and

695
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,360
tranquil, but I'm willing to be
with every emotion without

696
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,240
judgement.
So you were judging it.

697
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,600
So you were judging the thoughts
coming in and then, oh, this is

698
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,000
nice.
Oh, no, they keep coming.

699
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,120
Oh, I'm not doing it right then.
And then you've turned it into a

700
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,200
technique as opposed to what it
actually is.

701
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,160
But what I still liked about it
was that it made you see them as

702
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,960
thoughts.
It all sounds like waves.

703
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,400
You say, oh, it's a thoughts,
thoughts, thoughts, thoughts

704
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,800
coming.
OK, let it be.

705
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:32,400
Let it be here.
Now.

706
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,200
Whoop, another one.
Here it comes.

707
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,400
It looks a bit different, but
it's still.

708
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,280
But you kind of see them as
things versus you.

709
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,680
Yeah.
And they're not.

710
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,760
They're just, they're just a
conveyor belt of stuff.

711
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,000
I love that.
Just think about anything, you

712
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,560
know, you can't stop your
thoughts either.

713
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,720
Like, you know, I don't think of
Ronald McDonald and just be

714
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,000
dancing around in your head like
you can't stop.

715
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,560
You can't stop your thoughts.
No, you can't stop your

716
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,840
thoughts.
Journaling.

717
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,960
What do you think about that?
I like journaling.

718
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,720
I like self gratitude
journaling.

719
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,800
A lot of people are harsh on
themselves.

720
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,360
They cringe at giving themselves
praise.

721
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000
But we're very happy and it's
very acceptable to criticize

722
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,960
yourself.
Because that's the thing.

723
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:10,600
But.
Why?

724
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,240
Why one and not the other?
Like, and then you ask them, is

725
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,320
it OK to just constantly
criticize someone else?

726
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,000
And they're like, no, I was
like, well, why do you do it to

727
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,960
yourself?
Are you more comfortable

728
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,600
criticizing or praising someone
else?

729
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,120
And depending on who you are,
you know, there's some harsh

730
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,120
people out there.
But you know, it's yeah,

731
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,240
journaling's OK.
It depends.

732
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:33,600
Yeah.
It's a good way to get your

733
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:42,360
thoughts out, to put in order
your, your day, reflect.

734
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,760
I think journaling's OK.
Again, it depends what you're

735
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:45,880
doing.
If you're journaling to get rid

736
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,080
of a feeling, No.
If you're journaling to enhance

737
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,640
your own curiosity, I think
that's great.

738
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,080
Yeah, I've had, I've spoken to
many people who say they journal

739
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,400
and it's really good and I can
see the benefits of that.

740
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,280
And I sort of thought I'm
definitely going to do that.

741
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,520
Haven't done it, want to do it.
But that night where I woke up

742
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,160
with the things and oh, I didn't
do that, I didn't do that,

743
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,880
didn't do that.
I thought the only way I'm able

744
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,560
to actually fall asleep again is
if I get this down.

745
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,400
So I open Notepad, wrote down
the things that I had to do that

746
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,120
my, my, I was not allowing
myself to sleep until I had them

747
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,240
down, wrote them down, switched
off the phone, and then I was

748
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:30,240
able to sleep because I thought
at least I'll have an e-mail to

749
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,360
myself.
I'll know about this.

750
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,040
It's going to be a it's.
A good way to do it, isn't it?

751
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:34,880
Yes.
You don't worry.

752
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,920
And trying to keep it here, it's
exhausting.

753
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,240
Keeping things there.
Yeah, that's exhausting.

754
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,000
Yeah.
Nothing.

755
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,040
It's a good idea.
That's not bad, is it?

756
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,920
But I was sort of being an
anxious person.

757
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,080
But then the blue light, I'm not
waking myself up.

758
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,840
The light's going to be in my.
I mean, yeah, the blue light's

759
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,600
not great, but like, just who
cares?

760
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,480
I've fallen asleep mid scroll
before.

761
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,080
I just think that's a lot of
scaremongering.

762
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,920
Like scaremongering.
Are you going to sleep better

763
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,880
not staring into a screen for an
hour for bed?

764
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,240
Probably, but you can still
sleep.

765
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,720
Like who cares?
Like just whatever, just do it.

766
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,000
I'm very I don't like how
prescribed the Wellness sphere

767
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
can be.
If if you're having a really

768
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,520
rubbish week and it's been
traumatic and it's horrible and

769
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,880
naturally you're getting comfort
from just looking at dog reels.

770
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,520
Yeah, man, I'd rather the reels
are great.

771
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,920
Exactly.
I'd rather relax to that and

772
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,320
fall asleep to be then then
forcing this prescribed routine

773
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680
of Oh no, no, blue light and
blah, blah, blah.

774
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,440
No, because that's just more
doing just being just be like

775
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,080
I've done that before.
I've had a rubbish day.

776
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,800
I don't care I fall asleep
watching TVI don't care like

777
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,120
it's it's fine and I slept all
who sleep fine.

778
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,440
Yes, there's an ideal of things,
but when it becomes a doing then

779
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,040
you just add more pressure on
yourself.

780
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,480
Yeah, I went to bed last night
with a dog reel thing.

781
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,680
I there was a guy who, there's a
guy who goes around and he

782
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,640
records encounters of owners
with their dogs.

783
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,920
And there was one of this lovely
old lady and she was with her

784
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,760
beautiful greyhound dog.
Maybe it was a whippet?

785
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,720
Maybe a whippet actually smaller
than Greyhound.

786
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
And the whippet was a bit shy
and the lady was like, oh, no,

787
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,400
she's 14 years old and
celebrity.

788
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,840
What an elegant whippet, you
know, white with his long paws

789
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,840
and the lady also with her Gray
white hair.

790
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:19,960
And the two of them are such a
bit.

791
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,280
She was saying how they go there
every day and have their little

792
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,680
moment and that her dog's going
to die, you know, because it's a

793
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,440
14 year old dog and that she's
going to miss her dog.

794
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,920
But but the man was, oh, can I
take a photo?

795
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,920
And she was like, oh, you're
such a lovely, kind man.

796
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,800
You know, you take a photo and
you took these beautiful photos

797
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,560
of this lady and then her dog
and then gave it to her.

798
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,200
It was just such a lovely
moments.

799
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,880
That's what I went to bed
looking at, you know?

800
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,960
Exactly.
And that's so there, and that's

801
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,160
filling your brain with lots of
happy things and relaxing things

802
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,360
as well.
You can't go wrong with animals,

803
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,840
pets, and cute things, right?
So exposure therapy.

804
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,560
So you've basically touched on
that a little bit.

805
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,560
So you want to expose yourself
to your emotion, to demystifying

806
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,760
it?
To allowing, I do a lot of

807
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,360
exposure therapy with my
clients.

808
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,280
If you want to rewire the back
to the amygdala again, if you

809
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,760
want to rewire that threat
response and anxiety, you can

810
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,160
only do that when it's
activated, when you're when you

811
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,400
are anxious, yeah, you have to
be anxious in order to rewire

812
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,320
that threat response.
So exposure therapy is like, you

813
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,560
know, purposely inducing
anxiety, but doing it in a way

814
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,400
where you get the credit at the
end of it.

815
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,560
So I did exposure therapy on the
London Underground many years

816
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,440
ago.
I was far too terrified, having

817
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,200
panic attacks, stuff like that.
So exposure therapy is no, this

818
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,960
is the homework.
Go and practice being anxious on

819
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,520
the Tube.
Oh, but what if I get anxious?

820
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,840
Yeah, that's that's the whole
point.

821
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,920
And then when I don't leave and
when I stay there, the body

822
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,360
releases, it's caught, It's
adrenaline, it's cortisol.

823
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,760
And then the brain rewires, the
amygdala rewires when it when it

824
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,160
sees that nothing bad happens.
And that's exposure.

825
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,160
Wow.
Yeah, Yeah.

826
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,120
And you can apply that to many
things, whether it's panic

827
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,360
attacks, you know, I do it with
intrusive thoughts sometimes,

828
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,240
you know, just let the thought
be there and don't react to it.

829
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,120
What?
Just be with the feeling.

830
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,480
And it's really, really intense.
But it's very effective.

831
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:29,480
Exposure therapy, I, I mean, I,
I kind of see that little bit

832
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,440
like taking yourself out of your
comfort zone, which I strongly

833
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,840
believe in, feel like you've got
to take risks in life and you've

834
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,040
got to go out.
So I love the whole concept of.

835
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,400
That's the form of exposure
there.

836
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,200
Yeah, I, I, although I'm, I'm,
I'm here with you.

837
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,280
We're talking about stress.
We're talking about anxiety.

838
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,080
I love stress and anxiety in a
very sick way.

839
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,080
I will always like actually, not
always.

840
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,000
I'm I'm not telling you the
truth now because I will avoid

841
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,680
this.
I won't because of the tube, the

842
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,440
whole claustrophobic vibe in the
tube.

843
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,640
If I can walk, I'm going to
walk.

844
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,560
I am just not going to go in
that tube because I just think

845
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,480
why put myself through that?
But be careful.

846
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,240
I know, I know, but there's
other things like in business

847
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,960
and in things and when I'm
uncomfortable and I'm scared to

848
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,640
do it or going on the Blooming
Apprentice, it's like go and do

849
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,160
it because it's like
professional things that but

850
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,000
with a tube.
There's something about that

851
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,840
underground.
I don't like it.

852
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,760
I I do do it, but I really
don't.

853
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,960
I can avoid if I can.
You can't.

854
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,320
Yeah, but just be careful
because when you do a void, you

855
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,120
teach the brain that the tube is
dangerous.

856
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,080
And it's not.
It's just uncomfortable, you

857
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,560
know?
Also, there's an element in your

858
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,960
professional life you have the
illusion in the agency of

859
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,080
control, whereas if you're sat
on the tube you have no control.

860
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,360
You're precisely right.
So so go.

861
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,000
So go and practice.
With no.

862
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,720
Control.
But then you still have control

863
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:48,760
in the in the tube.
Like it's fine.

864
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,720
You just have to, you just got
to wait.

865
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,960
But you can still stand, you can
stretch your legs, you can play

866
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,440
on your phone and do whatnot.
It's that it's symbolic, isn't

867
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,960
it?
You don't have control in the

868
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,200
tube, but you have a control.
It's also because you're

869
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,800
underground.
I mean, when you're in a plane

870
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,640
you don't have, there's
something bad about the plane.

871
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,600
You can see down, you can see
through the window.

872
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,480
It's.
AI people would say the opposite

873
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,680
to you.
I'm I'm much more afraid of

874
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:11,680
planes than they are on the
tube.

875
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Really.
Yeah, because they would just

876
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,320
the threat response will argue
for you to avoid.

877
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:22,240
So my threat response would say
you're 30,000 feet in the air.

878
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,080
You know you can't fall from a
tube.

879
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,680
Yeah, but what?
I'm not going to scare you with

880
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:29,840
thoughts.
Yeah, exactly.

881
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,440
What can happen with the tube?
Exactly.

882
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,760
But that's the way the brain
does it, because it uses that

883
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,520
irrationality, you know, like if
you're trapped, you're trapped,

884
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,400
you get out, you know, if, if
the plane stops working.

885
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,520
Yeah, but you're not.
Yeah, but it's.

886
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,200
Like freedom because you're in
the sky.

887
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:46,720
I don't.
Know yeah, but it's symbolic,

888
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:47,880
isn't it Yeah.
Freedom.

889
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,480
Yeah.
Is it free?

890
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,120
You know, like.
It's more free than underground.

891
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,040
Stuck, is it?
I don't know.

892
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,600
Yeah, man.
Because the worst thing I tell

893
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,320
you this comes from this is what
did it.

894
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,400
There was something in, in
Russia, in Moscow, the

895
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,360
underground, there was a portion
of the underground that

896
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,160
collapsed on both like sides,
ends of the tunnel.

897
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,760
So if you're trapped in there
with your in your train and the

898
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,480
ground collapses, you are
trapped.

899
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,800
Did they get them out?
I don't know.

900
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,640
Of course they did.
I don't know.

901
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,400
Well, did they?
I mean of.

902
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,280
Course they're trapped to the
other side.

903
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,680
You just, you get them out,
don't you?

904
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,560
Have to move boulders?
Yeah, you have to.

905
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,080
Whereas if your plane stops
working, you're finished.

906
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,280
But I'm just doing that to
challenge.

907
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,800
No, I know, but does there's
just it's.

908
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,080
Do you see how anxiety
rationalises?

909
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,240
OK, but it's much like if you're
going to die.

910
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,040
So it's saying.
If you are going to, wouldn't

911
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,520
you rather die in the sky?
No, I'd just rather not die to

912
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,040
be honest.
No, I also rather not, but if

913
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,160
you had to.
If I had to, yeah.

914
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,200
Seconds of hurtling.
Towards the earth at 800 miles

915
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,400
an hour.
I know it would be chaotic.

916
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,520
But the.
Reason why, and if you look at

917
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:05,440
it, the reason why is that look
at how anxiety has invaded your

918
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,280
reason.
Yeah, its its whole.

919
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,320
Purpose is to get you to avoid.
Threat.

920
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,080
That lion's a threat might eat
you.

921
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,160
OK, let's not go near the lion.
That tube is a threat.

922
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,560
Don't go on the tube and and.
And it uses.

923
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,520
Your thoughts against you?
Like, yeah, but it's

924
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,240
underground.
Oh, but it's all that.

925
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,600
It's all this and that.
It's like, doesn't matter.

926
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,760
It's insane.
I'll go on it if I have to do it

927
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,880
because obviously I'm not going.
To I'm not going to if I have to

928
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,240
go, I'm going to go because I'm
late and there's no choice.

929
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:34,800
But given the choice, my then my
rational brain will go.

930
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,080
Yeah, but you'll get the
exercise.

931
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,560
You're outside, don't you don't
have to Maybe also think of the

932
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,200
jug, the stress.
You've got enough stress.

933
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,720
Maybe don't give yourself that
extra stress.

934
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,160
Maybe just avoid that situation
and just, you know, just there's

935
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,840
stuff to do, there's stuff to
that and.

936
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,880
That's that's for you if you've
got a lot on your plate, but if

937
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,880
you do find like you've got some
stuff in your free in your jog,

938
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,520
get on the tube and then you'll
feel really proud of yourself.

939
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,360
You've got Oh, I did exposure
today and I've rewired my brain

940
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,560
exposure.
OK, I like that because it's.

941
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,680
A it's, I like it because it's a
fighter mentality.

942
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,600
It's yeah, I like that.
It's empowering, you know, it

943
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:10,040
is.
It is.

944
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,400
I like it.
I like it it.

945
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,360
Feels great you're.
Convincing me.

946
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,600
Yeah, it.
Feels great when you.

947
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,440
Do that when you do it and.
You get through it and you're

948
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,920
willing to be anxious.
It's a very empowering feeling

949
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:21,840
because you're starting to
overcome a phobia.

950
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,480
Yeah, 'cause I'm also saying
that to my daughter.

951
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,280
So I've got to practice.
What?

952
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,960
I preach, 'cause she's terrified
of spiders.

953
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,440
And then those dandy long legs
ones, you know, the thin and

954
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,880
they're so soft.
I mean, they're like fluff.

955
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,160
They're so harmless.
I'm like, come on, man.

956
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,920
Could take a feather duster and
take him out freaking out and

957
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,440
and I'm like, no, just do it.
If you do it once, it's not

958
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,320
going to be so scary.
What's what's the worst that can

959
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:42,840
happen?
They can pull.

960
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,640
You can just scoop them up with
a little feather dust.

961
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,440
So they're so fluffy little
things.

962
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,240
They can't even bite you.
Their jaws are too small.

963
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's the point like?

964
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,800
Yeah, but absolutely.
Terrified.

965
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,360
Yeah, these things.
But that's what fear does.

966
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,840
And yeah, and yeah, she might,
she might be absolutely fine on

967
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,960
the tube and she's fine on the
tube.

968
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,440
Takes your look at you and goes
like, what's this?

969
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,240
Ridiculous.
Totally odd.

970
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:05,400
Yeah, exactly.
It's the same.

971
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,720
That's the thing with fear.
It's a.

972
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,040
Rational.
Yeah, it's a rational I.

973
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,200
Don't like spiders?
I won't.

974
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:13,880
I can.
I can live.

975
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,360
No, unless it kind of invaded my
life to the point where I had

976
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,880
to, then yeah.
But like, I see a spider, what,

977
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,000
twice a year?
I don't really care, you know?

978
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Yeah, I feel, I feel bad for
spiders and one's so.

979
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,400
Horrible to them and they kill
them and they've also got a

980
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,280
right to live.
So but yes, exposure therapy.

981
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,720
I love that.
I love that empowering.

982
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,880
You know, I'm going to go on the
tube.

983
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:42,160
And what's one small step
besides exposure therapy that

984
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,280
people listening can take for
their anxiety, their stress

985
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,120
levels, you know, managing that.
It's really common.

986
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,600
It's it's human.
You're not.

987
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,760
You're not odd, like I'm not
just saying that to make you

988
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,680
feel better.
Like it genuinely is really

989
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,040
common.
Anxiety will make you feel like

990
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,000
you're alone or you failed in
some way and it's just nonsense.

991
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:06,160
Like no matter how your anxiety
presents one, there's hope and

992
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,040
you can rewire the brain.
Your brain is very neuroplastic.

993
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,400
It's OK if you just learn about
it and stuff and be kind to

994
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,440
yourself.
A lot of people as soon as they

995
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,880
get anxious, they assume that
they've done something wrong or

996
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,200
that they're doing something or
it's a flaw in their personality

997
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,880
or being.
No, it's not.

998
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,360
And actually, it's probably a
good part of your personality

999
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,680
because anxiety isn't always
bad, makes you considerate.

1000
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:31,680
It makes you not go gung ho into
situations.

1001
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,360
You know, it's part of your
rationalization process.

1002
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,080
It's not always the enemy, just
sometimes it does start kicking

1003
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,440
off more than it than it wants.
More than it wants.

1004
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,040
Yeah, but it's not a flaw in
you.

1005
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,400
It's just often look at what
that's trying to tell you.

1006
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,560
And for me, it was often, you
know, my life as it is, is not

1007
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,840
sustainable at the moment.
OK, so you know, like the

1008
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,320
blushing.
And the people that blush have a

1009
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,240
morbid fear of blushing.
You were talking about rewiring

1010
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:00,920
your brain.
Could you potentially rewire it

1011
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,800
to stop the blushing?
Or is that again the problem of

1012
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,520
you're saying to anxiety you're,
you know, you're giving anxiety

1013
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,600
too much credit and then making
it worse?

1014
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,920
Well, I'm a therapist.
I'd be like, why do you care

1015
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,480
that you?
Blush and often, you know,

1016
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,360
things like that can go into
like feelings of shame and often

1017
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,280
deeper things, you know, like if
I blush, I don't really care

1018
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:28,920
because I wasn't really made to
feel self-conscious.

1019
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,120
But for a lot of people, like
depending on how they grew up,

1020
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,400
having attention on that.
Oh, absolutely.

1021
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,040
Having attention on you might
not be good.

1022
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,680
You know, whether it's blushing,
sweating, whatever the notion of

1023
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,120
those self perpetuating anxiety
symptoms is, I hope I don't

1024
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:48,600
blush.
Whether you are going to blush,

1025
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,360
you're going to blush.
If you think that, why is that

1026
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,080
the problem?
Like So what if?

1027
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,360
You blush.
You know, a lot of what I do

1028
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,240
with clients is just tell
everyone.

1029
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,160
Step one, I'm doing public
speaking.

1030
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,800
I do get anxious.
So if I blush, all, all of you

1031
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,320
feel, all of you feel flattered,
feel flattered.

1032
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,720
It's all about you.
It's all about you.

1033
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:10,760
So we've spoken about the self
optimization culture.

1034
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,080
Well, not really that much, but
self optimization culture is the

1035
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,200
whole Wellness thing of like
trying to be as perfect as you

1036
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,480
can.
And I mean that that's the sort

1037
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,960
of, it's almost like a movement
in that direction.

1038
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,280
You're trying to optimize
yourself to be the best version

1039
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,040
of you.
And I think that creates a level

1040
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,000
of anxiety.
Yeah, self optimization.

1041
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,520
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad
lots of people talk about mental

1042
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,160
health and Wellness and things
like that.

1043
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,640
But with that comes a
commodification.

1044
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,760
And people want to sell you
quick fixes and cures and

1045
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,520
optimize.
And it's often through fear.

1046
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,240
And they'll take some studies
and some bits of information and

1047
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,240
inflate it or conflate it to
sell you something.

1048
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:57,720
So whether it's this supplement
for this or this for you got

1049
00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:01,480
Biome or this and that to make
to optimize yourself, you know,

1050
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,960
you see it all the time.
You got things on your these,

1051
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,040
these watches and rings and
things like that because.

1052
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,880
We're constantly.
Optimizing and optimizing and

1053
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,360
optimizing.
But as a therapist, I often

1054
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,040
think, you know, what are you
signalling back to your brain

1055
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:18,000
hundreds of times a day?
Well, you're not optimized so

1056
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,920
well, that's 100 messages back
to you that you're not enough,

1057
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,120
You're not fully functioning.
And then you start to

1058
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,040
internalize those messages.
Yeah, I see that all the time.

1059
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,640
Yeah, you see all the time.
So people pour thousands of

1060
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,320
pounds into just nonsense
sometimes.

1061
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:34,800
Don't get me wrong, I think
we're adults as well.

1062
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,720
A lot of what the self
optimization culture does is it

1063
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:42,520
infantilizes adults are like, we
know basically what the food

1064
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,920
groups are.
We know that exercise is good.

1065
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,440
We know we should sleep.
This is not new stuff, but how

1066
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,960
can we do it super better mega
and pay me money.

1067
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,920
And I'll tell you, and I just
think I work with anxious people

1068
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,360
and sometimes it's like, let's
focus on what you're actually

1069
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,400
doing right.
And I think you'll find that

1070
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,760
there is an abundance of things
that you neglect to acknowledge

1071
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,080
for that you're that you're
doing right.

1072
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,840
Yeah, in a self.
Optimizing culture.

1073
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,560
You're not going to think about
what you're doing right, only

1074
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,640
where the gaps are.
Next thing, next thing, next

1075
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:13,040
thing.
Yeah.

1076
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,200
And then, and then we.
Die, and then we die.

1077
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,480
I saw something else the other
day which is exactly the 8. 8

1078
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,760
billion people which were going
to be dead in so many, so many

1079
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,440
years.
So why are we so like, obsessed

1080
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,240
with silly buying kimchi for our
gut buying kimchi?

1081
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,160
Yeah, I like kimchi.
Actually, because it's your

1082
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,120
second brain.
That's what it.

1083
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:34,440
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah.

1084
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,360
Is it?
Yeah.

1085
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:39,360
It's so easy.
Yeah, yeah.

1086
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:48,760
OK, it's stress addictive.
I think a reaction to stress

1087
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:49,760
can.
Be habitual.

1088
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:55,760
Yeah, I think stress.
Is often good.

1089
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,840
As a distraction for some people
to their internal feelings,

1090
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,440
particularly workaholics,
perfectionists.

1091
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,920
If I'm always busy, I don't have
to sit with feelings of being

1092
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,480
still.
See that as a therapist, I said,

1093
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,440
what happens when you stop and
sit and be still?

1094
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,840
Oh, feelings I don't like, and
they're the feelings I like to

1095
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,200
work with.
And what are those feelings?

1096
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:16,880
Shame, guilt, grief.
Wow.

1097
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,640
Inadequacy.
Things like that, people are

1098
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,240
terrified of it.
That's why I can never be on The

1099
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:30,320
Apprentice.
Oh, so I don't even.

1100
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,480
Get me started.
I just feel like I.

1101
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,520
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not as
driven as these guys.

1102
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:41,400
I just, I, I like to chill out.
No, you know the worst thing

1103
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,920
about the whole?
Apprentice thing for me, for my

1104
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,520
personality, the worst thing is
the lack of control.

1105
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,640
In that situation.
You do not know anything about

1106
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,440
what your day is going to be or
your week.

1107
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,080
You can't call anyone.
Maybe once a week, like a

1108
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,880
limited time with someone
listening, you might get that,

1109
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,480
but you don't know when you're
going to eat.

1110
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:02,960
You don't know when they're
going to come and get you for

1111
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,400
the next task.
You're not allowed to speak to

1112
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,080
people.
They put you in a dark corner

1113
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,040
somewhere that you have to wait.
You just never know what's

1114
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,360
coming.
You have 0 control, and you

1115
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,600
don't have control over how it's
edited either.

1116
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,800
Of course not.
And you know that there's Booby.

1117
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,920
Traps you just like the the lack
of control for me in that thing.

1118
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,320
Same thing I don't like lately.
Just play.

1119
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,560
Like silly music over someone
who said something that doesn't

1120
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,880
sound that silly.
But when you play silly music

1121
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,480
over silly music, they look
silly.

1122
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:32,680
And I'm like.
I don't really.

1123
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,080
That's a bit.
Don't really like that.

1124
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,080
Doesn't sit well with me.
Yeah, but you know the fact that

1125
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,920
you have this.
Like, this lack of control, it's

1126
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,000
a deliberate thing because that
is a genuine stressor.

1127
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,800
So of course, we all know that
if, you know, tired candidates

1128
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,280
are going to fight more, right?
So of course that this, they can

1129
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,040
see TV.
Yeah, they're going to make sure

1130
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:52,720
that you don't.
Get.

1131
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,880
Much sleep at all Let's let's be
clear, especially with me.

1132
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,320
I'm awake, I can hear the
snoring.

1133
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,480
You know, I would like sleep two
hours.

1134
00:55:58,480 --> 00:55:59,880
I would hear the camera people
coming.

1135
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,000
I I just knew I was like, Oh my
God, they're probably going to

1136
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:02,560
be here.
I don't know.

1137
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,560
So I was trying to control when
are they coming?

1138
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,720
When are they coming?
Oh, I couldn't.

1139
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:07,400
Oh my.
Word.

1140
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,560
And then I would be.
Sort of waking up every now and

1141
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,400
again to hear and then finally
I'd hear them and by the time

1142
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:12,640
they come into the house,
because I've got to get the

1143
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:13,880
equipment, it's another two
hours.

1144
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,680
So I basically only had maybe 2
hours of sleep, if that.

1145
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,880
How can you function Yeah,
setting you up for that stuff

1146
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,240
as.
Well, and some people could

1147
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:24,480
sleep better, but the lack of.
Control.

1148
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,680
That is horrible.
It's just horrible when someone

1149
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,440
dictates your life.
I mean, I'm.

1150
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,720
I'm sure that's what.
I don't know if that's what

1151
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,160
prison must feel like someone
else is controlling you.

1152
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,040
But at least there's a routine.
This is There's no routine with

1153
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,880
this kind of thing.
You have no clue when you're

1154
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:40,880
eating or what you're doing.
Yeah.

1155
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,000
It's all like a social
experiment.

1156
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,600
Isn't it for entertainment?
Push people, push people to

1157
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,040
their limits for that, for for
entertainment and stuff like

1158
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,680
that under the guise of it's
like someone's doing you a

1159
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,320
favour.
They're not, but it's that

1160
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:58,960
anxiety, it's like.
Like what can we do to create

1161
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,960
maximum anxiety?
And it's the that that makes the

1162
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,480
good TV because and with the
anxiety, with that height, like

1163
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,240
insanely powerful version, then
comes great TV.

1164
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,520
Yeah, which is then edited.
Yeah, which makes it even more

1165
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:15,600
pretty.
Look, it's a.

1166
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,440
It's a very good program.
The way it comes out.

1167
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,640
But yeah, that the price is is
we are going to make you very

1168
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:23,440
stressed.
Yeah.

1169
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,520
Can you handle it?
No, I don't want to.

1170
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,680
No, I don't think I would be
able to.

1171
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,480
Oh.
Gosh, yeah, also just.

1172
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,160
Working with people and all
those.

1173
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,280
Egos.
I couldn't do it like I I would

1174
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,560
be out the door straight away.
That's why I work.

1175
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,360
I work on my own, so to live
with them, yeah, it's.

1176
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,840
Because they're all huge
personalities, so if you can

1177
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,000
have one in a room, you can just
about handle it.

1178
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,600
But then they all there, like 17
of them really intense

1179
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,000
personalities, you know?
So I just take my book and sit

1180
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,120
in the corner.
I think, yeah.

1181
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,280
Well, you won't allow books.
Yeah, you won't allow.

1182
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,160
Books.
No.

1183
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,160
No phone, no books.
No materials.

1184
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,160
Nothing to read, no exercise,
nothing.

1185
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,400
Yeah, no, they did.
This is a but this is just tell

1186
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:06,880
you something like prison.
This.

1187
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,920
Is it's special you can get a
book in prison.

1188
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,200
No.
No books, not no you.

1189
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,920
Can't.
You can't write anything.

1190
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,360
You have no pen, you know,
paper, nothing.

1191
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,760
So you can't, you can't connect
in that way.

1192
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,240
You can't go and watch TV.
You can't go for a walk.

1193
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,040
So at one point I was getting,
you know, the claustrophobic

1194
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:28,440
tube feeling.
I was going.

1195
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,640
I just want to go for a walk.
And I can I please just go for a

1196
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:32,120
walk?
No.

1197
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,480
Were you afraid of the tube
before going on that show?

1198
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,320
Yeah.
Feeling trapped.

1199
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,440
Hey.
Yeah.

1200
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,920
So tell us.
About your podcast.

1201
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,040
I have a podcast.
Called disordered and I also

1202
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,040
rebooting my original 1 called
the panic pod just 20 minutes of

1203
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,480
me and the dulcet northern tones
talking about bits of anxiety

1204
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,360
and stuff.
But disordered is one with me

1205
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,520
and another therapy colleague
and we talk about all things

1206
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,880
anxiety disorders.
If anyone's listening today and

1207
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,960
they wife says resonated it's a
great place to start.

1208
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,400
You know, it's just me and Drew
talking about some good things

1209
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,920
and about our lived experience
with anxiety, but also the

1210
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,720
evidence of based approaches
towards it and both how we got

1211
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,240
better than how we work with
other people.

1212
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,120
And it's there's a lot of
community wins in there as well.

1213
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,520
So we get people to send in
their voice notes and we all

1214
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,600
celebrate that.
Like, like that.

1215
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,600
We had one the other week, you
know, gang on the tube.

1216
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:38,920
We got on the tube the first
time in years.

1217
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,080
And I was like, that's great.
You know, we and we play them on

1218
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:42,120
the show and stuff, so it's
cool.

1219
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,520
Oh wow, Yeah, we'll.
Put the descriptions in in in

1220
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,320
the channel description for this
episode.

1221
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,400
So anyone watching, and I will
be, I will be watching too

1222
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:55,160
because I think it's really
good.

1223
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,120
It's nice to tap in and it's
nice to talk about this and to

1224
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,920
know that you're not alone.
And whether you have a tube fear

1225
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,480
or whatever it might be, or you
blush or you get really nervous

1226
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,240
on stage or on a podcast or even
just speaking up in a meeting or

1227
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,520
at school because we have some
young good ones or uni in the

1228
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:14,960
lecture hall.
You're scared to.

1229
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,600
Yeah, well, it's it's literally
fair if you choose to do.

1230
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,600
Something despite the fear.
I mean, it's the definition of

1231
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,120
courage, isn't it?
You're being courageous.

1232
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:24,600
Courageous.
Yeah.

1233
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,160
And I see that in people.
Just because it's not

1234
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,080
conventionally courageous
doesn't mean that it's not

1235
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,320
physiologically the same fear.
And that's courage.

1236
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,080
And I and I say that to to
everyone also.

1237
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:41,800
You can be ambitious and and
anxious.

1238
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,680
You can do both.
You can do both and it's OK of

1239
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,360
course.
It's OK, one thing I say in my.

1240
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,800
Practical times.
All feelings are welcome, even

1241
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,760
the ones you don't like.
It's been amazing having you on.

1242
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:54,760
Thank you.
Thank you so.

1243
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:55,960
Much for coming.
Thank you.

1244
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,120
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.

1245
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,800
Go on the tube I.
Will, I'm going to know I like

1246
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,720
that it's an empowering.
I like that.

1247
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,480
Exposure therapy.
Expose myself.

1248
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:06,520
Yeah, do it.
Go.

1249
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:07,680
Be anxious.
Go.

1250
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:08,880
Be anxious.
Love it.

1251
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:09,800
Thank you.
Thanks.

1252
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:10,800
So much, Josh.
Thank you.