Confidence, Tattoos & the Art of Being Unapologetic

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[Music] Lewis Ellis. This is an interesting 
one. Never have I ever met anyone with a

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tattoo of Lord Sugar's face on their 
bicep. But that is how far Lewis went

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to get his revenge on Lord Sugar for some 
of the things that Lord Sugar called him.

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This is a very interesting interview. We 
want to get into the arguments he's had,

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the public spats with Lord Sugar. We want to get 
into his brain because he is a fascinating, mad,

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weird, and wonderful individual. Lewis is 
also a really unusual character that does a

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lot of strange things. For example, he traveled 
all the way to Qatar to track down his stolen

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AirPods and actually found them. He's had a lot 
of public feuds with Lord Sugar. Lord Sugar has

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been really mean to him online and Lewis 
has been really mean back to Lord Sugar.

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If you want to know exactly how mean they 
were, you've got to tune in and find out.

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So, I'm so happy to have you on in researching 
like your background. I've dug up quite a lot of

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things. Yeah. But just before we get into all of 
that, I can probably safely say that you're known

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for being very bold, very unapologetic. You made 
it to the final five on the apprentice. That's

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right. You're the owner of Hustle Marketing. 
Yeah, you're doing pretty well. You're pretty

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entrepreneurial, surviving. Yeah, you're uh you're 
very good at, I think, your personal branding,

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which I want to get into a bit more. And you're 
also known for quite a public spat with Lord Sugar

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himself. Oh, he's Yeah, he's on my arm, actually. 
I'll talk about in a bit. Show us. Is he on your

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arm? Actually, he's there. I won the battle, but I 
lost the war. Like, it looks a lot like It looks a

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lot like creepily. So I would be really scared to 
see him on my It would give me like Yeah. anxiety.

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At 21 years old, I was pretty lost. I didn't know 
what I wanted to achieve in life. Didn't know

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where I was going to go. Was running around and 
every time I'd come home and try and get settled

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into some sort of career, freak out and go travel. 
So anyway, at 21, I'd met some business owners in

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a ski resort and those guys instilled the faith in 
me that I could potentially be an entrepreneurial

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sort of person. I don't really settle into a 
role and I'm always trying to create things

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and do things. So, I would say that I'm just a guy 
who at 21 decided I wanted to be a business owner

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of some sort. And ever since then, I've been doing 
everything I can in my power to make it a reality.

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But it has to be something that I'm passionate 
and interested with. Yeah. For someone tuning in,

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what do you think they can gain from you? I think 
I think the value that I bring to the table,

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we can talk about marketing, but that's pretty 
boring to be honest. You want to talk about that,

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hit me up. We can talk about the realizations at 
different points in my life and the adaptations

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that I've made to make things happen. You just 
mentioned about my friends, for example. I just

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cut out every single person that I know and have 
associated with for the last 10 years. I literally

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just put in the group chat, "Guys, it's over. 
We're not talking anymore." Yeah. Cuz I realized

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that they weren't the right crowd to be around me 
anymore. So, there's stuff like that we can talk

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about. Or I'm just a like I said, I'm just someone 
who's doing everything within my power to make my

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business a success. My business is very different 
and I'm trying to maintain that. I think the value

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someone might take from listening to me talk. I 
haven't quite made it yet. I've not made millions

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yet, but my business has been around for four 
years. I'm in my fifth year now. It is getting

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more successful year on year. We're big bringing 
in bigger clients. And you got to ask yourself,

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if I'm a tattooed guy who comes across and 
some people hate me, some people love me,

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then how am I getting these clients and how am 
I still growing? And I think there's value to

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be had in that story. Do you know what I think the 
value is to have you on? Why I brought you on? Cuz

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no one else would do it. No, I'm joking. Yeah, I 
think your thing is that you're pretty confident.

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I think you've got a nice you confident but you're 
confident in a way that you're very accepting of

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exactly who you are at the core. You've got quite 
a sensible view of yourself and with that comes

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a lovely level I think of confidence. I think 
anyone watching you will could learn from that

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sort of confidence. It often gets misconstrued. 
People like to call me arrogant when I was younger

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because it was a confidence without achieving 
anything. But now it's the mindset of people

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perceptions of me is changing. They're like, 
"Oh, he said he's going to do these things.

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He's doing these things." Yeah. So, I suppose 
I also think the other thing that they'll get

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from you is you're pretty entertaining. And 
that's what I got when I Today I'm tired. No,

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you're entertaining still. You're pretty funny. 
I saw your online stuff. You're quite a you're a

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big character. You're a big personality. You've 
got a big person. Why are you calling me a fat?

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Because I've been losing weight recently. Exactly. 
Talking about your personality. Oh, personality.

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Sorry. I'm talking about your personality. 
And it's it's it's an important thing to have

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a personality. Let's be honest. Just and you can 
have a there's different colors of personality.

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There's all different wavelengths of personality. 
But if you have that personality stands out,

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that's a big thing in life. It just gets it opens 
doors fact. And I think that people can probably

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learn that from you today. Yeah. You know what? 
I think I've got this really heightened sense

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of self-awareness that I didn't have 10 years 
ago now. And I'm constantly assessing and crit

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critical of myself. So much so that I'll always 
make these minor tweaks and changes wherever

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possible. And I'll sit there and go and I'm my 
own biggest critic. And I think a lot of people

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are their own biggest critic, but then they don't 
really change anything. So maybe there's something

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there around the fact that whatever you're 
trying to work on, wherever you're trying to go,

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you can work make changes at any point in your 
life. Yeah. Okay. So when I went on this because

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obviously you're on the apprentice and everything 
and I was on the apprentice. It's interesting to

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meet these different characters, but then I look 
at what they've done outside of Apprentice and I

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see how how they've carried themselves. Are they 
present on social media, aren't they? They cuz

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some definitely don't want anything to do with 
that whole world fame, whatever. But yeah, I have

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to say watching you on the Apprentice and the 
initial sort of thought was yes, the confidence

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maybe arrog slight arrogance, but then I saw your 
hair transplant video. I hope you don't mind me

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talking about that. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I actually 
when I saw that I actually thought, okay, he's

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not taking himself too seriously. He's not afraid 
to talk about his weaknesses. He's not afraid to

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admit he's vulnerable. So, there's a story there. 
Actually, it's the last time I What's the story?

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I don't know why I get I never ever cry and it's 
really worrying. Actually, I need a therapist,

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but I'm avoiding you. If you are one, I'm avoiding 
you. Just know that. I feel like I'm a Tinder box

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waiting to go up. Anyway, at the time, I'd scroll 
through social media. There's this little girl

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with cancer, and everyone was shaving their head 
off in solidarity with her to raise money and

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awareness. And I was just like I was just I was 
chatting away and I was like I'm gonna shave my

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head tonight and they were like what? And I went 
home. I don't know why I did it. I just did it

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straight away. Yeah. Posted the video because 
at the time my videos were doing quite well on

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TikTok to try and give it more oomph. And then I 
was like holy crap my hairline's awful. And so I

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was talking to a guy who had a business connecting 
people to people in the UK like brain surgeons who

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do it in the part-time and stuff. And he was like 
do you want to do it? And I was like yeah why not?

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Like why not? Now I'm 30. I think I was 20 20. 
No I was 30. So why not? Yeah. Yeah. And then I

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was sharing the story and I actually get loads of 
guys reaching out to me. Like I'm not a vain guy.

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Like I don't really give a [ __ ] 90% of the time 
I'm in my pajamas. But the it made me feel much

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much more confident cuz I'd never had this like 
part here. Yeah. It was interesting. You didn't

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really notice it. And then you said that it was 
like and then it made you more self-conscious. I

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think I was like oh crap that's not good. And 
then Yeah. And then past that point the amount

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of people amount of guys especially business 
owners that reach out to me ask me questions

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all the time about it. Okay. So for people 
watching cuz I I have guys and things on my

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Instagram like anyone thinking about it, should 
they do it? Like how scary is it? How expensive is

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it? This is the thing. So I I only had the corners 
of my hair done the sides cuz I wanted a straight

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hairline. So I didn't really have receding hair or 
anything like that. If you are thinking about it,

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go for it. Who it makes you feel better and you 
feel better. You're going to be more successful.

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You're going to push. You're going to feel more 
confident walking into a room and all that sort

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of stuff. The amount of guys that reach out to 
me and they've been worried about it for years.

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It's crazy. Um, and they let it really impact on 
that. If girls get their done, you can get your

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hair done. Like, as simple as that. I agree. And 
I think it's right. It doesn't mean you're vain or

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anything. It means you've got respect to invest 
in yourself and you know that how you look does

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affect how you act. It does. And why not be more 
confident? Why? I think guys have a hard time. You

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think Jeff Bezos? You think Jeff Bezos hair just 
grew back on its own or or Elon Musk? Elon Musk.

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Elon Musk looks fabulous, by the way. I think 
whatever tweakments he's been doing, go for it.

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hair at 1000. Look at Jeff Bezos in 2000s. Look 
at Elon Musk in 2000. And look at them in 2024 and

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tell me they've not both had their hair done. I 
think who's the other one that I noticed? Oh god,

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the guy off High School Musical. Zack Efron. Yeah, 
Zack Efron. His hair was fading and then it came

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back stronger. Yeah, I'm 100 I think that's You 
know what I um my brother had ears that sort of

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stuck out like this. My mom was like, "Listen," 
and we're kids at that point. She was like,

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"Listen, you got these the kids tease you and 
everything. Do you want to go and get it done?"

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And he was like, "Yeah, sure." Yeah. that made a 
huge difference to his life. Yeah. I draw the line

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at things where, for example, I've got friends 
who will just do lipo instead of going to the

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gym. Like I draw the line that because I can just 
go to the gym, but like straightening your nose,

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growing boobs, doing your hair. You can't do 
those. Hey, you woman diet, cut it, you get

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extensions and things. And I feel like men have 
a hard time if they want to do the hair transport

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thing. I think absolutely. Yeah. Why not? I 
think go for it. So, you've got this confident,

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nononsense persona. And what's the dark side 
of you that people don't see? I used to go out

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a lot and drink and party with my friends too 
much, but that's cuz it's been part of my life

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since I was like 17 years old. And I reflected 
on this about probably in August, my birthday,

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I was 34. And I realized that 17 years had 
passed. So I started drinking when I was like 15,

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but like 17 years when I could start going out. So 
for 17 years, I've been drinking and partying and

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going to all these events and going to all these 
influence and things when after the apprentice. So

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how much are you drinking? What are you drinking? 
No, not like I'm drinking every day, but I'm on

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about I'll go on a weekend. I'll be hammering on 
a Friday. It's no different to how it's just the

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norm where I'm from north up north. I'm guess the 
same down here. But in Manchester, everyone goes

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out and parties on the weekend and they get drunk 
and hung over and then you deal with it for two or

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three days. And I just thought at 34 I was like, 
it's been 17 years. I'm over this. Like when I

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was a holiday rep, it was a big part of my life. 
I worked in nightclubs and bars when I was younger

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as well in the UK. So all the time around me, I 
was doing bar crawls, booth cruises, boat parties,

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and But you're not doing drugs at this. Oh, no. 
I wasn't when I was younger. I've done drug of

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course I've done drugs when I was older. Everyone 
has. But what? No. But mo most of Manchester has.

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But I just thought to myself, I'm 34 and I'm like, 
I'm over this now. And I reflected on it. So I'd

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say the probably the darkest side of me was the 
was going out and drinking too much. I really do

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wear my heart on my sleeve. I just just I'm who I 
am. Do you know what I mean? So how did you stop

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this? Honest to God, it was just for me it was a 
moment of realization. I was at a festival with

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my friends and we've been drinking all weekend and 
I just thought I'm over this. I literally woke up

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the next day and I said, "I'm going guys." And I 
left the group chat the next day. I told them all

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that I'm just I'm going to be doing my own thing 
from now on. And it's not because wow. They're not

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to blame. It's just they're my friends from school 
from like younger 10 years ago. And I've changed

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in those 10 years. And I just don't and I don't 
want to put them down. They're great guys. But

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the most of the socializing is done around alcohol 
and partying and going out and drinking. Yeah. If

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you're in that crowd, you're going to get sucked. 
But that is the that's the crowd everyone's in. So

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if you're sober there, it's weird. Yeah. But even 
where I'm from, like most people are in that crowd

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and they just cling to friends because they're the 
friends. They stay with their friends from school.

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And I just thought it's like when people become 
work friends and you go out with work friends and

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then when you change jobs they're not your friends 
anymore. I don't want to I didn't want friends of

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circumstance or necessity. I'd like to choose 
who I want to be friends with and I'd like to

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surround myself with the five people who I want to 
be like because if I can do that then I know that

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I'll become the sixth as a teenager and whatever 
and growing up then I would go out with my friends

0:11:23.600,0:11:30.000
and and I I did find that a significant number 
of them would okay alcohol whatever everyone

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was drinking but when it come like the drug side 
of things they'll take that to have that extra

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confidence and they would take that to have that 
extra energy and especially if you're like going

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partying the whole night in the nightclub and they 
would take these drugs through. And I just I don't

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know. I feel like for me, I always thought that 
if I went into any of those sorts of drugs cuz

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I'm like naturally like mad and hyperactive and 
all that. I just thought I would probably die.

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I'd probably have a heart attack really quickly. 
I can't even have a Red Bull. And I saw these guys

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drink that and I could party with them, but I did 
it naturally. I'm sure that they could also do it

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naturally, but I think it's a psychological thing, 
isn't it? for where I live, I think it's it's just

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the norm in Manchester especially. It's just 
the norm. Every single person like I I would go

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networking events and one of the first questions 
people are asking is who's getting a bag in. Okay.

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I don't want my daughter going to Manchester Uni. 
No, it's not that. It's just I don't know if it's

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just a city. Birmingham's no different. Like I 
meet business owners from Birmingham, London,

0:12:27.280,0:12:31.360
and Manchester. And they're all they're all the 
same. Like half of them will be hardcore part

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animals who go out and do drugs. The other half 
maybe just don't drink full stop and therefore

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don't fall vow of that. But I think in Manchester 
especially, it's just a norm. Like it's just it's

0:12:39.520,0:12:44.080
almost seen as drinking now. But again, that's 
a reflection that I was I think it is the norm.

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I think I personally just decided I'm over that 
life. Like I know it sounds silly. I've been this

0:12:49.360,0:12:53.120
is a realization that came not just overnight. 
I've been thinking for for since I started my

0:12:53.120,0:12:56.480
business. Oh, I need to get my [ __ ] together. I 
cuz I don't have a job anymore. I can go out and

0:12:56.480,0:12:59.920
party whenever I want. I'm going out on a Tuesday 
night. But then after the first year of business,

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I'm like running myself out, burnt out. Second 
year, I'm like, I need to calm down with the

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drinking and partying. Yeah. And by year four, I'm 
going I just can't physically do it. I can't. You

0:13:07.920,0:13:11.120
can't. You probably would. Look what happened 
to Liam Payne. It just carries on, doesn't it?

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It just carries on. If you are getting into it 
fully, that's the result, isn't it? But also,

0:13:15.520,0:13:22.080
you got to remember that there's very few people 
that are well-known drug users that maintain the

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level of success. It's very few. I can't think 
of many. The only one I think was a little guy

0:13:26.240,0:13:30.320
for Wall Street and even he went to prison in the 
end. So, Oh, yeah. I would say he's out now. He's

0:13:30.320,0:13:34.160
doing quite well. Yeah. Yeah. Ripping people off 
again now. But I would say that if you look at

0:13:34.160,0:13:37.520
the playing the odds, that's what I did when I was 
younger. I looked at playing the odds or I was a

0:13:37.520,0:13:42.560
runaway basically who went traveling the world. 
And I thought if I don't go university, I might

0:13:42.560,0:13:46.640
not get this job. But if I and I might lose to 
this other candidate has a degree, but if I get

0:13:46.640,0:13:49.920
a degree, then we're on the same level. So I've 
always been trying to play the odds in life. And

0:13:49.920,0:13:54.320
now I'm older. I'm going why would I put all the 
effort in when I'm younger to get these degrees

0:13:54.320,0:13:57.680
and qualifications I don't really care about. 
I just did it to get on par with everyone else

0:13:57.680,0:14:02.960
and be perceived to be the same as everyone else 
to then ruin it and put myself lower energy. Hung

0:14:02.960,0:14:07.120
over for two or three days, not wanting to work on 
a Monday, Tuesday. I want to work Monday, Sunday.

0:14:07.120,0:14:11.040
I want to be on the games 24/7, seven days a week. 
And I couldn't do that. I tell you what though,

0:14:11.040,0:14:15.440
since I've quit drinking full stop, what we in 
October now, like my energy is through the roof.

0:14:15.440,0:14:20.560
I'm back at the gym working out constantly and 
I watch I can see monitoring. Yeah. And I'm way

0:14:20.560,0:14:25.040
ahead of myself in my workload. Usually I'm always 
behind, but now I'm ahead of everything. Nice. So,

0:14:25.040,0:14:29.920
I can't see how that's not going to benefit me. 
Do you feel like some of the controversies that

0:14:29.920,0:14:34.800
you've had have overshadowed your business side 
or do you think it goes hand inhand with it? No,

0:14:34.800,0:14:40.240
I don't really care about anything like that. 
Like I I couldn't care less if you like me or

0:14:40.240,0:14:44.880
hate me. I'm going to be a success regardless. My 
entire life people have told me what I'm doing is

0:14:44.880,0:14:49.120
wrong. So, what is the difference? There's not 
I wouldn't say anything controversial. It's not

0:14:49.120,0:14:54.640
like I've sacrificed a sheep on a farm. Oh, that's 
wy. It's not it's not like I've not like I've done

0:14:54.640,0:14:59.120
anything super crazy. I've not gone a bender and 
Grand Theft Auto across London and stuff. Some of

0:14:59.120,0:15:02.880
the things that you've done after like some of the 
things that you've done probably if I did that my

0:15:02.880,0:15:06.480
parents would have a heart attack. Yeah, that's 
it. My mom always has a heart. My mom's used to

0:15:06.480,0:15:10.880
has heart attacks. Yeah, she's used to it. But 
you got to remember there's one thing that's very

0:15:10.880,0:15:15.920
different I think about me to other people is I've 
always believed in just doing things and seeing

0:15:15.920,0:15:21.040
what happens. And so what I mean by that is as a 
kid I would come up with an idea. I I got arrested

0:15:21.040,0:15:25.280
when I was 14 for stealing a dumper truck. I 
did I planned a heist. I got the whole school

0:15:25.280,0:15:28.880
involved. I gave everyone walkie-talkies. I had 
a map. I learned how to drive using the internet.

0:15:28.880,0:15:32.560
Found all because it started cuz I found a key on 
the floor. So, I've had this creative brain that

0:15:32.560,0:15:36.320
allows me to go run away with me. And sometimes I 
didn't know how to harness that as a kid because

0:15:36.320,0:15:39.360
obviously it was just me coming up with ideas 
and getting everyone to come together and rally

0:15:39.360,0:15:43.600
around them. It's a fun project, but yeah, it's 
naughty. But at the time, you would think, "Wow,

0:15:43.600,0:15:47.040
he got arrested. You're not allowed to hang 
out with him. He's naughty." But as an adult,

0:15:47.040,0:15:54.480
my job is now to get creative, come up with these 
wild ideas, and make them a piece. Yeah. So,

0:15:54.480,0:15:59.040
I don't think there's anything really that I've 
done that I regret at all. Your company is wild.

0:15:59.040,0:16:03.520
It's wild in that way. It's supposed to be cuz 
it's marketing. Yeah. It's a nice I've built a

0:16:03.520,0:16:08.720
business around the person I am, I think, because 
if I didn't, I wouldn't fit in anywhere. You

0:16:08.720,0:16:15.440
have. So, you've called yourself The Apprentice's 
most trolled star. Oh, the press right now. given

0:16:15.440,0:16:21.680
by Lord Sugar who joined in with a savage jibes 
online. Yeah. When you watched you on a task. Do

0:16:21.680,0:16:25.360
you stand by that? So first things first, if you 
know anything about the press, they'll just write

0:16:25.360,0:16:28.960
wherever they want. So any kind of headline with 
anything that says I apparently said something is

0:16:28.960,0:16:32.800
probably Do you So do you think you were the most 
trolled star or not? No, I never said that. But

0:16:32.800,0:16:36.880
you never said it. No. What? I don't even use the 
word trolled. But what I would say is I definitely

0:16:36.880,0:16:42.320
got abused for tattoos. And I definitely got felt 
really sad for a long time because that story came

0:16:42.320,0:16:46.080
out the fact what was it? It was because I was 
talking about tattoos and how it impacted me

0:16:46.080,0:16:52.160
and I was like mentally there's a an unsuccessful 
person who's a billionaire literally putting you

0:16:52.160,0:16:56.800
down in front of millions of people. Yeah. I felt 
like crap but I didn't say I was the most trolled

0:16:56.800,0:17:01.520
person in the world. Do I think I was? No. Okay. 
Can Can we go back to Are you okay to go back to

0:17:01.520,0:17:06.240
what he said? Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember much. 
Okay. Lord Sugar wrote on Twitter at the time

0:17:06.240,0:17:12.960
publicly in front of all his followers. So Lewis, 
your tattoos are horrific. Tell me where I'm

0:17:12.960,0:17:18.640
missing the point. Yeah. What does he look like? 
Question mark. So, the story starts where we're

0:17:18.640,0:17:23.920
at a lake in Finland and the water is disgusting. 
Smells like [ __ ] This is their filming location

0:17:23.920,0:17:27.360
and none of the girls want to get in the water. 
The producers are telling them to put these

0:17:27.360,0:17:30.480
bikinis on and get in the water. Obviously, what 
do the producers want to do? They want to create a

0:17:30.480,0:17:33.840
story and they want to make it sexy and sizzling. 
So, they're trying to get the girls in bikinis.

0:17:33.840,0:17:36.400
The girls are all throwing their toys out saying, 
"No way we're doing that." And we've been eating

0:17:36.400,0:17:39.520
[ __ ] for disgusting dirty water. So, I was 
like, "I'll just do it. I'll throw some shorts

0:17:39.520,0:17:43.200
on. I'll get in the water. If I die, I'll get 
ill." Whatever. So, I'm running around on this

0:17:43.200,0:17:47.600
on the episode in these horrible red shorts. And 
long story short, is I didn't want to get my body

0:17:47.600,0:17:51.840
out. I didn't. But I just thought if I'd rather do 
it than they do it cuz we know millions of people

0:17:51.840,0:17:55.920
are going to watch it, right? Yeah. So, anyway, I 
did that and then randomly when the episode airs,

0:17:55.920,0:18:00.880
he just tweets that out. Yeah. I was driving 
at the time. I remember. And you responded

0:18:00.880,0:18:06.160
with something along the lines of, "No one has the 
right to judge you or your body." Yeah. Yeah. Why

0:18:06.160,0:18:11.200
was that statement important to you? Bear in mind 
the story I've just told. We knew at the time that

0:18:11.200,0:18:14.160
it was going to be aired on TV and that millions 
of people watch it. And then the girls were saying

0:18:14.160,0:18:18.000
like, "We don't want to be judged for our bodies 
and splashed across the media like this." So that

0:18:18.000,0:18:21.280
was a conversation that we' had and it was in my 
head. So when he tweeted that, I just thought,

0:18:21.280,0:18:25.280
"Who are you to judge someone else's appearance?" 
That's what I thought. Anyway, I didn't actually

0:18:25.280,0:18:29.280
tweet back to him either. I just wrote it on my 
Twitter. I didn't even bother replying to him

0:18:29.280,0:18:33.600
because I just didn't see it as worth But you got 
quite a good response. Yeah, because why wouldn't

0:18:33.600,0:18:40.000
you? Why wouldn't you? If I just went that girl's 
fat on TV and I wrote it on Twitter, then what

0:18:40.000,0:18:44.640
would happen? But like people are going to go who 
are you to judge that person? So who just because

0:18:44.640,0:18:47.360
you're older and rich or whatever and you're from 
a different generation doesn't give you doesn't

0:18:47.360,0:18:51.600
excuse you from judging someone. And I'm far from 
a snowflake as well. So So you did that. You stood

0:18:51.600,0:18:58.080
up for yourself. Fair play. Yeah. Fair play to 
you. Brave. Okay. He came back with Lewis. Your

0:18:58.080,0:19:06.320
tattoos tell a story. What are you a Kindle? Yeah. 
Yeah. You have the right to do what you want to

0:19:06.320,0:19:10.160
your body. So, he's acknowledging that you have a 
right to do what you want with your body. He says,

0:19:10.160,0:19:16.240
"I have the right to my opinion." Yeah. I say 
they're horrible. When you're 50 on the beach,

0:19:16.240,0:19:21.200
you'll wear a t-shirt. You'll be an embarrassment 
to your kids. I think that's really harsh. Right.

0:19:21.200,0:19:24.720
It's not even harsh. It's just like I do. I think 
that's harsh. I wouldn't even say that's harsh. I

0:19:24.720,0:19:28.720
would say that's just being a [ __ ] Do you 
not agree with you basically said something,

0:19:28.720,0:19:31.680
I've said something and then he's got he's doubled 
down his point and gone I'm going to continue

0:19:31.680,0:19:35.280
doing this for no reason. Anyway, you can tell he 
doesn't write his own jokes cuz that wasn't funny.

0:19:35.280,0:19:41.040
What are you a Kindle? Who even uses a Kindle 
in 2020? Also, the next part where he's saying,

0:19:41.040,0:19:45.760
"I have the right to an opinion." 100%. Everyone 
has a right to an opinion, but we don't have the

0:19:45.760,0:19:48.720
right to listen. We don't have to listen. I don't 
have to listen to your opinion. You have the right

0:19:48.720,0:19:52.720
to shout it as much as you want around your own 
house, but the moment you start shouting it at me,

0:19:52.720,0:19:57.040
I'm I've got a right to respond. But why did 
why was there something else between you guys

0:19:57.040,0:20:00.480
if he came after you in that way? He never spoke 
to me the entire time. So, he's never spoken to

0:20:00.480,0:20:04.800
you. just literally went off. Yeah. The only 
time we spoke was during the show when he was

0:20:04.800,0:20:08.400
usually bollocking me or or just talking for 
two seconds. As you will know, you don't get

0:20:08.400,0:20:13.440
to communicate with him. So yeah, for me, I was 
pretty stunned. Mainly because the reason why I

0:20:13.440,0:20:17.920
got upset at the time is because this is a guy 
I've looked up to a long time. So bear in mind,

0:20:17.920,0:20:21.120
like when I was younger, didn't know what I wanted 
to do, 20, I started reading all these business

0:20:21.120,0:20:26.000
books and his was one of them, autobiography. And 
I felt like I connected with that story of a guy

0:20:26.000,0:20:30.320
from no money building it up. But then actually, 
it's one of those, isn't it? like you just don't

0:20:30.320,0:20:33.920
expect the person that you think's amazing as 
well. Yeah. Look, if he's more conservative,

0:20:33.920,0:20:39.120
he doesn't like the tattoos, that's okay. But he 
does need to understand the power and impact that

0:20:39.120,0:20:43.840
he has. I don't know if he's playing into his own 
brand of being like, I'm super critical and formal

0:20:43.840,0:20:49.280
and conservative or whatever, but yeah, I think 
he owes you an apology. I think I think he So,

0:20:49.280,0:20:53.200
I think it's it's quite common knowledge that 
he drinks a lot and tweets on Twitter and then

0:20:53.200,0:20:56.960
he usually gets himself in all sorts of trouble. 
And then you responded, I thought your response

0:20:56.960,0:21:00.080
was the best thing you could have ever said 
because you just said, "Okay, boomer." Yeah,

0:21:00.080,0:21:04.080
literally that made a lot of headlines because 
Yeah, it was cuz it's really top at the time. It

0:21:04.080,0:21:09.920
was pretty topical. But yeah, literally. But he's 
forgetting when he's writing that he's insulting

0:21:09.920,0:21:14.080
thousands of people who have got tattoos who are 
over 50 and obviously those people have got kids

0:21:14.080,0:21:20.720
and they're like, "What the Yeah, he is actually. 
Yeah. And they were there with the tattoos. So

0:21:20.720,0:21:25.440
anyone who's watching, yeah, they were present on 
Twitter and they joined in and it was just wow. I

0:21:25.440,0:21:28.560
don't think it's harsh to go after you in that 
way. Nothing happened between you guys and he

0:21:28.560,0:21:35.040
just went and savaged you on 100%. And also that 
then skewered the experience me cuz up to that

0:21:35.040,0:21:38.400
point I'm like okay it's it's a bit annoying. It's 
a bit like a prison cuz you're locked in there all

0:21:38.400,0:21:42.800
the time. But apart from that it was fine. It was 
tiring. It was eating crap food. You didn't get to

0:21:42.800,0:21:47.360
sleep and it was like stressful. But apart from 
that, okay, I could put up with that. But then

0:21:47.360,0:21:52.480
to start getting abuse randomly online vis like 
from a from someone who's supposed to be like a

0:21:52.480,0:21:56.560
prominent prolific business owner that was a bit 
like this is [ __ ] now. Why have I why I didn't

0:21:56.560,0:22:01.040
sign up for that? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. 
Do you think he'd he'll apologize? Why would he?

0:22:01.040,0:22:04.720
I think he's just one of those guys that's always 
been that way and will never change. But you know

0:22:04.720,0:22:08.480
what? Who cares? Look, it's okay to be He's got 
his personality, doesn't he's got his brand that's

0:22:08.480,0:22:13.360
a bit harsh or whatever. But I think like when you 
overstep that, then you probably should say sorry.

0:22:13.360,0:22:17.280
You know, maybe I did. I think you should. 
You say I'm unapologetic. I I've apologized

0:22:17.280,0:22:20.560
to people who have I've upset or offended by 
accident. If I've not realized I've done it,

0:22:20.560,0:22:24.640
I I'll personally message him and stuff like that. 
Yeah. I think Lord Sugar reminds me of my dad. My

0:22:24.640,0:22:28.480
dad's also quite a strict conservative guy like 
that and he'll speak his mind or whatever. But

0:22:28.480,0:22:32.640
like with him, I'll be like, "Dad, that's hurtful. 
If you have feelings, you need to apologize and

0:22:32.640,0:22:37.280
I'll sulk and stroy you until you and then he'll 
apologize or whatever." I think sometimes you can

0:22:37.280,0:22:41.440
bring the them to say sorry. I think Apprentice 
Brand if they're watching, they should he should

0:22:41.440,0:22:46.800
extend his heartfelt apology to you for making 
you feel so bad. not for he's allowed to his own

0:22:46.800,0:22:50.880
opinion but for doing it in the way he did it 
publicly. I I was gonna say I think there's one

0:22:50.880,0:22:58.640
thing that m makes me feel like it was a bit of 
a [ __ ] on everything because you he was almost

0:22:58.640,0:23:02.800
doing that he was almost trying to treat me like 
I was just someone there to be on TV but you're

0:23:02.800,0:23:07.680
forgetting he's he obviously if you'd understood 
you don't know this at the time but for the last

0:23:07.680,0:23:10.400
eight years I've been trying to build a business 
I've been trying to learn about business I've been

0:23:10.400,0:23:14.000
reading every book I can going to every seminar I 
could speak to every business owner interviewing

0:23:14.000,0:23:17.360
them on YouTube and then I went and started 
freelancing and I was trying to build a business

0:23:17.360,0:23:20.720
all my life I've been building towards this moment 
and I thought this could be the chance to start

0:23:20.720,0:23:26.240
a business. And I think I feel like it was almost 
just like he had assumed that I was just some guy

0:23:26.240,0:23:32.240
pretending to be on TV when that was the least of 
my concerns. All I wanted to do was build. That's

0:23:32.240,0:23:36.400
like I say to anyone that I've had on the podcast 
that are ex apprentice candidates. The apprentice

0:23:36.400,0:23:41.840
brand looks after the apprentice brand and Lord 
Sugar's brand and those are the priorities and

0:23:41.840,0:23:45.600
the apprentice candidates. You're on your own 
and you've got to find your way and then still

0:23:45.600,0:23:49.600
come out of it and try and run a business, get 
it, you know, continue. Sometimes it works,

0:23:49.600,0:23:53.680
sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it's really 
goes against you. Sometimes it helps, you know,

0:23:53.680,0:23:58.160
it it varies, but they're not there to look after 
you. I would say both of those brands are dead in

0:23:58.160,0:24:02.560
the water. The apprentice is on it. No one watched 
it. It's kind of a bit boring now. It's not even

0:24:02.560,0:24:06.640
boring. It's just crap. Have you tried watching 
it? is actually crap. And then on top of that,

0:24:06.640,0:24:11.040
Lord Sugar's brand is that he's just some angry 
guy. That's his brand now. That's his legacy. I

0:24:11.040,0:24:14.960
think respect for everything is achieved. But just 
because you achieve something doesn't mean you

0:24:14.960,0:24:22.720
have to become a dick. Yeah. Only fans. So after 
your spat sugar, you went on only fans. Yeah. As

0:24:22.720,0:24:27.200
a link onto the story of the no one has a right to 
judge your body. I thought it was I thought it was

0:24:27.200,0:24:32.080
funny. Okay. Actually, what came first? Okay. 
Wait. Okay. So after this tattoo came first,

0:24:32.080,0:24:36.240
was that revenge to him? No, it was Think about 
this, right? I've got a marketing agency. I do PR

0:24:36.240,0:24:41.760
stunts and publicity stunts, right? So, what what 
can I do if I've got a guy give me tattoos or get

0:24:41.760,0:24:46.720
a face picture of his and to be fair, my actual 
tattoos are like bits of them are all things. He

0:24:46.720,0:24:52.240
feels that he's inked into your skin. His image 
is inked into because of what he said. I don't

0:24:52.240,0:24:57.920
think he thought twice. Why don't you take a 
photo of the tattoo and send it to him? Oh,

0:24:57.920,0:25:03.040
ask him when he'll apologize. I think I think 
that's five. No, but No, but I'm thinking like

0:25:03.040,0:25:07.680
if you live in the past, then you'll never No, 
no, but it's a product that's on your skin. Yeah,

0:25:07.680,0:25:11.920
but who cares? All of these things are different 
things that have happened to me. Do you like it?

0:25:11.920,0:25:15.520
What do you think? I would assume that he's seen 
it, but then and then the only fans then came

0:25:15.520,0:25:20.720
next where I was just like, what else can I do to 
get some attention here? Wow. Okay. Yeah. So, you

0:25:20.720,0:25:26.800
did that. That's that's another Yeah, man. Okay. 
So, as a business guy, because you just said it

0:25:26.800,0:25:33.120
yourself and then you went on only fans, like how 
did you connect the two and take that risk? Like,

0:25:33.120,0:25:37.520
how did you go, I'm a business guy, I'm going to 
do Only Fans. Like, what in your mind took you

0:25:37.520,0:25:41.200
to the two? And why did you think it was going 
to work? And did it work? Yeah, of course. PR

0:25:41.200,0:25:46.320
stunts. So, I'm looking for opportunities to go, 
how can I grab attention and bring it over to what

0:25:46.320,0:25:50.240
I'm doing? So, Lord Sugar wants to talk about the 
apprentice. The apprentice want to talk about the

0:25:50.240,0:25:55.520
apprentice. I want to talk about what I'm doing 
now. So I want to keep dragging people back to to

0:25:55.520,0:26:01.360
us and to what I'm doing and that's never changed. 
So it's quite good in my head right at this

0:26:01.360,0:26:07.280
time. So what was I was 20 28 when I was on the 
apprentice. So this played when I was 29. COVID

0:26:07.280,0:26:12.720
was hitting and my job had just been taken away 
from me and I had no way of surviving. Literally

0:26:12.720,0:26:18.240
no way. No one was hiring people. I couldn't get 
furow. So a lot of people in the same situation me

0:26:18.240,0:26:22.160
millions fell through this crack where if you just 
change jobs recently you couldn't get furow. So I

0:26:22.160,0:26:26.000
was eligible for whatever the jobsekers thing 
is called now or go and work in a supermarket.

0:26:26.000,0:26:30.560
So I was thinking I've got no money in the bank 
so I might as well try I might as well try and

0:26:30.560,0:26:34.240
start a business. At the time everyone was set up 
only fans accounts so I thought I'll do that and

0:26:34.240,0:26:37.760
actually funny enough loads of people came through 
and that actually allowed me to start my business

0:26:37.760,0:26:41.760
survive and so I can start my business and drags 
people through. So what is he doing now? And the

0:26:41.760,0:26:46.240
same thing with with the tattoo stunt. It was to 
bring people across from this story about negative

0:26:46.240,0:26:50.800
tattoos to we do a PR stunt cuz in my head I was 
thinking I'm going to build a marketing agency in

0:26:50.800,0:26:55.040
the future. I want to do PR stunts. I want to do 
experiential things. I want to grab attention in

0:26:55.040,0:26:59.280
the most weird and wonderful ways. Um, so I was 
trying to start doing things like that because I

0:26:59.280,0:27:03.200
thought I'd use them in my portfolio, but to be 
honest, I've not had to. Like, so how long were

0:27:03.200,0:27:06.880
you on there for? How long did Oh, like only a 
couple months literally. And then I just closed

0:27:06.880,0:27:10.080
the account. How was it? No. People only Only 
only fans, by the way, doesn't mean you have to

0:27:10.080,0:27:13.600
have your dick out and wave it around. People are 
just on there just sharing normal clothes shots.

0:27:13.600,0:27:17.680
But the perception of the name Only Fans was why I 
did it cuz everyone's naked on there, right? Okay.

0:27:17.680,0:27:22.160
Yeah. So, you didn't And then you got tired of it 
or what? No, I didn't need it. I just did it. Set

0:27:22.160,0:27:26.000
it up and then let it drop off and then moved 
on. But all my life I'm looking for things like

0:27:26.000,0:27:29.840
this all the time. That is controversial. That's 
why I said so you do controversial things. Yeah.

0:27:29.840,0:27:35.200
But I'm trying to get I'm trying to get attention. 
I'm trying to grab attention. My job for a living

0:27:35.200,0:27:39.680
my job is to grab attention and harness that 
and project it somewhere. Now that might be

0:27:39.680,0:27:44.880
increasing views, increasing sales. It might be 
in people getting job applicants. Whatever it is,

0:27:44.880,0:27:50.160
I have to grab attention in a very noisy world and 
power it through. And so that's what I do. That's

0:27:50.160,0:27:54.640
what I was doing and that's what I continue to do. 
So it could be anything. It could be, for example,

0:27:54.640,0:27:58.240
there was another one. There's another company 
that a friend of mine was doing a campaign on.

0:27:58.240,0:28:02.720
There was they were working with a client who did 
sex toys and they were advertising a job for sex

0:28:02.720,0:28:07.360
toy tester and that was the PR campaign and they 
asked me to front it. So I'm there with a dildo on

0:28:07.360,0:28:12.480
Instagram. Who wants to be a sex toy tester? 
And we again you use that to your to your to

0:28:12.480,0:28:17.280
your advantage. But these campaigns happen all the 
time. Unfortunately, the press like to write about

0:28:17.280,0:28:22.000
negative and sex. So that's what you go down the 
lines of. I think your brand is bold in that way

0:28:22.000,0:28:28.080
and it is like that and and you've got the tattoos 
and you I think it fits that sort of thing. It's

0:28:28.080,0:28:31.920
you can get away with it. People are getting 
people are getting wise the fact that if I'm doing

0:28:31.920,0:28:37.520
something that obviously if you just met me in 28 
20 when I was 28 29 on the apprentice if you just

0:28:37.520,0:28:42.800
heard of me then you it's all new. But if you'd 
heard of me prior to that you would know that I've

0:28:42.800,0:28:47.040
consistently been doing these things. So none 
of it's different. Listen I'm from that world.

0:28:47.040,0:28:54.160
I get it. It's I understand PR comms marketing. 
I understand how literally it's smart. You have

0:28:54.160,0:28:59.600
had attention. So a couple of years prior to that, 
the BBC were reporting that I got lost in Syria.

0:28:59.600,0:29:04.880
A couple of years before that, the that I was in 
the press for swimming in a shopping mall. Yeah.

0:29:04.880,0:29:09.360
But these are things that I was like, "Oh, there's 
something in this. You can do something. You can

0:29:09.360,0:29:13.360
grab the attention. You can push it somewhere you 
want it to go." And that's all a marketer does.

0:29:13.360,0:29:16.800
So I can't see how that's any different to what I 
wanted to do for a career. Well, you're using your

0:29:16.800,0:29:22.000
own brand to do. You're risking your brand or not 
risking I don't know. You're using yourself. Yeah.

0:29:22.000,0:29:26.720
To put knees. It is a risk in some for some 
of the things, but I don't think so. There's

0:29:26.720,0:29:31.920
nothing that's going to ever affect like unless I 
do something illegal. Yeah. And even then, think

0:29:31.920,0:29:36.240
of the people that do things that are illegal and 
then they still come back. Take You said Wolf Wall

0:29:36.240,0:29:38.960
Street guy before you said it yourself. He's doing 
quite well for himself. He's only doing quite well

0:29:38.960,0:29:42.720
for himself because he quit committed such major 
fraud that he had a movie made about him and then

0:29:42.720,0:29:46.720
he harnessed that attention and now you believe 
instant salesman but now you believe him to be

0:29:46.720,0:29:50.160
a good person but he's not he's still I don't 
believe him to be a good person but people will

0:29:50.160,0:29:53.360
still buy from him I watched his wife's podcast it 
was really interesting to have her point of view

0:29:53.360,0:29:57.440
he's a very difficult man but what he can do is 
sell at the end of the day all the stuff is sales

0:29:57.440,0:30:02.160
isn't it it's sales good at it or you're not good 
I think some people like to be controversial and

0:30:02.160,0:30:07.120
negative and be infamous some people try and 
use PR firms will try and use controversy to

0:30:07.120,0:30:11.920
get headlines for their clients For me, I just 
do it for fun. Yeah, I think you're having fun.

0:30:11.920,0:30:16.480
I think you're having fun. So, another thing that 
you've said, you've publicly blasted the BBC's The

0:30:16.480,0:30:23.120
Apprentice, claiming you were set up to look like 
a deep beep head. Were you actually set up? Yeah.

0:30:23.120,0:30:29.920
So, I will actually genuinely say that we were 
made to look like idiots, I'll say, instead of

0:30:29.920,0:30:36.160
swearing. So, um, at one point it became, look, so 
you we know we're we signed up for this show where

0:30:36.160,0:30:39.920
you get to make look stupid, right? We're more 
than happy with that. If you make a mistake, call

0:30:39.920,0:30:44.560
us out, look, make us look stupid, that's fine. 
What we didn't like was we were noticing that

0:30:44.560,0:30:49.680
they were purposely trying to make things happen, 
moving stuff, causing issues, sabotaging. Yes. So,

0:30:49.680,0:30:53.040
so the producers were getting the runners 
to purposefully get in the way of things or

0:30:53.040,0:30:58.800
sabotage things or it became most apparent when we 
were on a train where both teams were on the train

0:30:58.800,0:31:02.160
together. So really, you could walk from one end 
to talk to the other end if you really wanted to,

0:31:02.160,0:31:06.640
but you weren't allowed to communicate. And then 
they were causing delays and problems. And I lost

0:31:06.640,0:31:11.920
my rag that day. And I remember Claude literally 
pulling me to the side saying, "If you lose your

0:31:11.920,0:31:16.800
[ __ ] again at the production crew, Lord Sugar 
will go mad. So don't do that again." Cuz I was

0:31:16.800,0:31:21.680
like, "What the is going on here? Why?" And the 
problem that's not a problem either. If you're

0:31:21.680,0:31:26.960
sabotaging it, fine. The biggest problem for me 
was that it's been you are gas lit to believe

0:31:26.960,0:31:30.640
that what you believe is wrong. and they keep 
telling you that you're imagining it. That's

0:31:30.640,0:31:33.760
not happen. Do you know what I mean? And then 
because you're locked in this space that starts

0:31:33.760,0:31:37.040
really playing tricks on you, it messes with your 
head. Yeah. As a group, we came together and we

0:31:37.040,0:31:41.120
sat I remember we sat there whoever the production 
person was at the time and we were just like this

0:31:41.120,0:31:45.440
is ridiculous. It's got to stop. We are happy to 
play a game show. We're happy to look like idiots.

0:31:45.440,0:31:50.480
We're not happy to be to be sabotaged because you 
got to remember like at the time I was starting a

0:31:50.480,0:31:54.880
business, it was fine. But if for example I was a 
successful marketing business owner at that point

0:31:54.880,0:31:59.360
already and I've got clients on the outside and 
I'm taking part in the show and then they sabotage

0:31:59.360,0:32:04.160
you, they can lose you real life clients. They 
could really affect your reputation and that's not

0:32:04.160,0:32:11.520
in my head that's not okay. Totally. Totally. When 
I raised these concerns, I used to call them over

0:32:11.520,0:32:15.840
and I used to give me the camera piece of camera 
and I used to talk directly to people behind.

0:32:15.840,0:32:20.320
Yeah. And I said to him, "Stop it. You've done 
this. You've done this. You've done this. You've

0:32:20.320,0:32:24.880
done this. you've done this in your documents 
this, you stop it and if you put that scene in,

0:32:24.880,0:32:28.800
I'm going to walk and if you do that, I'm going 
to come after you. Yeah. And it was always like

0:32:28.800,0:32:33.200
that. And then once I got out of that, obviously 
I walked. I was like, I'm not taking this stuff.

0:32:33.200,0:32:39.120
And I had a lot going on at the time. Okay. The 
comeback was that I'm too analytical. Oh, you're

0:32:39.120,0:32:43.840
just you're very analytical to have because they 
know that my background was in building systems

0:32:43.840,0:32:50.640
implementation and analyzing things. Oh, you're 
very analytical. But yeah, gaslet interesting. I

0:32:50.640,0:32:55.840
I think interesting term I remember saying at the 
time is that you've got a room full of people who

0:32:55.840,0:32:59.760
run their own businesses or want to run their own 
businesses. Most of us some of their some of them

0:32:59.760,0:33:02.800
are just for the rides to be famous I imagine. 
But they were definitely trying to do that. Oh

0:33:02.800,0:33:06.960
yeah. But the majority of the people in the room 
I said they're business owners. You're trying to

0:33:06.960,0:33:12.400
make them look like you're trying to pull the wool 
over their eyes and gaslight them. It's not going

0:33:12.400,0:33:15.200
to go down. It's not going to go down well. Is 
it? I suppose once you get in there, sorry for

0:33:15.200,0:33:20.160
interrupting, you realize that you're up against 
it's not fair anymore and you're trying to just

0:33:20.160,0:33:25.520
maintain that reputation as best you can cuz then 
it's then that you realize, wow, yeah, I'm being

0:33:25.520,0:33:29.040
set up in a way. I think I enjoyed it at first. 
It was like I think it was like an escape room.

0:33:29.040,0:33:34.000
I enjoy challenges. I enjoy puzzles and stuff like 
that. I just didn't again I just didn't enjoy the

0:33:34.000,0:33:39.120
if you go into a casino and then they say oh 
you have to use this I don't know I'll give you

0:33:39.120,0:33:42.160
an example like this specific deck of cards and 
you're not allowed to play with anyone else around

0:33:42.160,0:33:47.280
you apart from these people and you've got to wear 
these glasses and you go this isn't fair I want to

0:33:47.280,0:33:51.360
just play the game and I just wanted to play the 
game I didn't I understand they're making a TV

0:33:51.360,0:33:55.520
show but then they there's a level between okay 
naturally letting things happen and then trying

0:33:55.520,0:33:59.440
to cause things to happen waste our time puts it 
all down mix and we've already given it's great

0:33:59.440,0:34:03.360
TV because when you're sitting there watching You 
love to watch people fail and be really dumb and

0:34:03.360,0:34:06.880
you go that says a lot more about society than 
it does about the show. By the way, if anyone out

0:34:06.880,0:34:11.280
there is listening or anything, if you ever want 
to really prove a point, want to see if I'm right,

0:34:11.280,0:34:15.040
let me Doesn't matter what you do for a living, 
let me come and follow you with a camera for a

0:34:15.040,0:34:20.480
day, just for a few hours, even like five hours. 
I'll film them and then I'll edit it and I'll make

0:34:20.480,0:34:26.160
you look like you are an absolute simple. It's 
very easy. Oh, it is actually very easy. You

0:34:26.160,0:34:30.400
realize that the power of editing. You also said 
that it's like being in a prison. Did you find

0:34:30.400,0:34:33.680
you were like trapped in a prison then? Yeah, I 
said it before, but yeah. No, 100%. So, you're

0:34:33.680,0:34:36.800
not allowed to leave the house on your own. You 
want a haircut, you got to book it in and you get

0:34:36.800,0:34:40.320
to go in a week and Okay. You want to go for food 
or snacks? You can't. But then how did you have a

0:34:40.320,0:34:46.160
fling and Oh, that was whilst we were abroad. So, 
cuz you out of the but you're still on the show.

0:34:46.160,0:34:50.000
Yeah. Yeah. I just So they they didn't follow you 
around anymore cuz we weren't allowed to do they

0:34:50.000,0:34:54.160
locked us in our rooms. I'm I'm from this sort of 
background of if you tell me I'm not allowed to

0:34:54.160,0:34:58.640
do something or try and lock me in, I'm going to 
probably try and break out. So, naturally, I'm on

0:34:58.640,0:35:02.880
the show. They locked me in my hotel room in South 
Africa and I'm going no in Finland it was actually

0:35:02.880,0:35:07.120
both times I got locked in and I just went this 
and I like latched the door open and pegged it so

0:35:07.120,0:35:10.560
you couldn't open and close it and then crawled 
down the corridor past the producers and then I

0:35:10.560,0:35:15.600
just went out for the day. Stop. Yeah, I will 
not do what you tell me to do and I know it's

0:35:15.600,0:35:22.080
very childish but I just that's kind of part of 
what I'm about. I think so. Yeah. Controversial.

0:35:22.080,0:35:26.800
How do you like being a business owner now? I 
don't like it. I think it's hardest thing I've

0:35:26.800,0:35:31.760
ever done. I think hard isn't it? Yeah, I think 
I always thought being a business owner is about

0:35:31.760,0:35:34.960
creating a product and selling a ser creating 
a product or service and selling it. That's

0:35:34.960,0:35:41.120
part of it. But actually once you do sell it, it's 
managing relationships. It's maintaining yourself,

0:35:41.120,0:35:47.360
keeping yourself on the ball time project. My my 
jobs majority is project management and then in

0:35:47.360,0:35:51.040
there trying to find room to be creative for the 
clients because we're bringing the creativity to

0:35:51.040,0:35:55.920
the table. It's a whole so in the last the first 
couple of year first year was a culture shock

0:35:55.920,0:35:59.840
massive to me because I'd already had freelance 
experience and I've been working for a long time

0:35:59.840,0:36:03.520
so I just thought I'd know what I was doing but 
massive cult shock on managing relationships you

0:36:03.520,0:36:06.800
can't tell people to go themselves when they you 
definitely can't shout at them down the phone I

0:36:06.800,0:36:13.120
found that out as well. Second year was realizing 
that my time was myap I was hitting capacity and

0:36:13.120,0:36:18.320
that's my so I have to manage my time now to be 
able to grow and then now in year three and into

0:36:18.320,0:36:22.880
year four the focus has been on growing the brand 
how I want to grow it the service how I want to

0:36:22.880,0:36:27.520
grow it the what I offer as a specialism and make 
it really unique to it's very different to what

0:36:27.520,0:36:31.280
anyone else offers out there and I've been working 
really hard on that and then on top of that I'm

0:36:31.280,0:36:36.480
managing to to pull things together not be scared 
that a lot of things like I'm finding it really

0:36:36.480,0:36:39.760
exciting because every year. I learned something 
new. At the moment, it's all about making things

0:36:39.760,0:36:44.080
happen. Like for example, we flew a drone carrying 
cocktails people's houses the other day and I was

0:36:44.080,0:36:48.000
like, can you legally carry cocktails by drone? 
Who do I need? Do I need a pilot? Do I need to

0:36:48.000,0:36:53.200
ask the police, the council? How can I take off? 
Where can I land? And all these qu So all the time

0:36:53.200,0:36:56.720
I'm problem solving and trying to figure things 
out. And that that that really lends itself to

0:36:56.720,0:37:02.000
me. Making money. Yeah, I have been. I've not been 
there's literally been no other way because don't

0:37:02.000,0:37:07.600
forget I lost my job in 2020. So if I wasn't 
making money, I wouldn't be able to continue

0:37:07.600,0:37:11.840
living. Yeah. It's hard because at the end of the 
day, no matter what business you're doing, you're

0:37:11.840,0:37:16.560
asking someone else to give you money. And then 
you're responsible for that thing. Yeah. I have

0:37:16.560,0:37:20.400
I've been able to support myself for the last four 
years pretty comfortably. That's not what I want

0:37:20.400,0:37:24.720
to do though. This isn't a for me. This is not 
a hobby. This is not a side hustle. What do you

0:37:24.720,0:37:29.280
want to do? I want to grow it massively. Um, and 
to be honest, the sad thing is everyone that I've

0:37:29.280,0:37:33.040
come across, that's not everyone, but most people 
I've come across that seem to be doing very well

0:37:33.040,0:37:39.200
in in that my space have an early stage investor, 
a rich mom and dad, partner who gave them cash or

0:37:39.200,0:37:44.800
a massive credit card. Like I've I've not had any 
of that. I started during COVID. No one wanted to

0:37:44.800,0:37:49.120
buy marketing. I had to pay the bills regardless. 
And I've managed to do that since day one. Now I'm

0:37:49.120,0:37:52.640
at a point where I'm like, actually, we've got 
this great track record, this great portfolio.

0:37:52.640,0:37:56.160
We're speaking to these big national brands and 
international brands now, which them conversations

0:37:56.160,0:38:00.400
weren't happening a year ago. I think we're at 
a tipping point where actually organically I'm

0:38:00.400,0:38:05.520
able to start hiring staff very soon. And I'd love 
to have investors and and just overnight grow it,

0:38:05.520,0:38:09.520
doing all these crazy campaigns, but that's just 
not the reality for most people. So, I have to

0:38:09.520,0:38:15.200
organically grow it. I would say that's personally 
irrelevant to to you because I think everyone's

0:38:15.200,0:38:19.360
situation is what other people are doing and how 
they got there. Maybe they did have that, maybe

0:38:19.360,0:38:25.280
they didn't. It's it's completely irrelevant. 
What I would say is actually extremely relevant is

0:38:25.280,0:38:30.800
which country you're starting a business in. What 
time you're starting whether it's co or 10 years

0:38:30.800,0:38:35.920
ago, 15 years ago if you started, it's completely 
different to now because the landscape's changed,

0:38:35.920,0:38:40.080
the competition's changed. The types of things 
that you put there, the skills that are needed.

0:38:40.080,0:38:46.960
It's like now starting a business now, it's a it's 
harder I think than I I've been reading I've been

0:38:46.960,0:38:49.840
reading a lot, especially in the UK. Yeah, I was 
going to say I've been reading a lot about the

0:38:49.840,0:38:55.440
new UK laws and stuff like that. The moment I 
feel like my business isn't welcome in the UK,

0:38:55.440,0:38:59.840
I'm just going to take it elsewhere. And I know 
that pretty much every other person I know with

0:38:59.840,0:39:03.680
a business is looking at leaving the UK. It's 
a taxes, isn't it? It's a taxes and it's not

0:39:03.680,0:39:08.720
it doesn't feel very entrepreneurial. When you go 
like to the UAE, you visit, there's like a sizzle

0:39:08.720,0:39:12.400
in there. You almost feel it. You can almost smell 
the money. You go there, like you feel energized.

0:39:12.400,0:39:17.600
You go to the States, then you come here and 
it's a bit like sort of beaten with a stick

0:39:17.600,0:39:21.120
and everything is in the UK. They're going to tax 
water. If they can text them, they text tax text

0:39:21.120,0:39:22.000
tax text tax text tax text tax text tax text tax 
text tax text tax text tax text at the moment. I

0:39:22.000,0:39:26.160
see it's not it's like almost an attack on the 
population. Like I see speed camera vans every

0:39:26.160,0:39:29.760
other road now. You know why? They've got people 
they've got people running the country that aren't

0:39:29.760,0:39:34.800
entrepreneurs. They have literally no clue what 
I personally won't be living in the UK forever. I

0:39:34.800,0:39:39.600
think I'm lucky to be born. I love the UK though. 
Disclaimer, I love the UK. I couldn't give a about

0:39:39.600,0:39:46.160
protected. No, like I think look, it's been ruined 
through a myriad of ways over the last few years.

0:39:46.160,0:39:50.080
And I think it's been one cluster [ __ ] to the 
next. Yeah, that wasn't a swear word. That's

0:39:50.080,0:39:56.720
adjective. However, I will say I'm lucky to be 
born here. That in itself is more privileged than

0:39:56.720,0:40:01.520
what 99% of the population, the world population, 
isn't it? Something like that. So, I'm born in a

0:40:01.520,0:40:06.720
culture where I can grow a business. I can I do 
have house. I can buy food. So, that in itself

0:40:06.720,0:40:11.760
gives me I'm a white straight male. I'm not white 
by the way, but I always say am. What is your

0:40:11.760,0:40:16.160
I'm half Asian. Are you really? No one knows that 
though. Now they do. No, no, tell us. I only ever

0:40:16.160,0:40:21.920
use it on loan applications because diversity. 
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, my dad was Asian, but

0:40:21.920,0:40:25.760
yeah. Yeah, I don't really talk about that. But 
the point is I'm already lucky compared to most

0:40:25.760,0:40:30.560
people in the world. So, that's great. And I can't 
bite that the hand that feeds you. But at the

0:40:30.560,0:40:35.120
same time, the UK has no support. No, I've tried 
every single program I can think of in my areas

0:40:35.120,0:40:39.440
for business support, business growth. The only 
thing I did get ages ago was a was a small loan

0:40:39.440,0:40:44.400
and that just about covered the bills to survive. 
And to be honest, I'm just I'm over it. I know a

0:40:44.400,0:40:49.760
lad in Saudi Arabia who started a cyber security 
company and got given a massive unit to work from.

0:40:49.760,0:40:54.800
His boardroom was bigger than I've ever seen and 
a huge amount of startup capital. Yeah, there does

0:40:54.800,0:40:59.840
need to be the right landscape, a place where the 
taxes are nice and low, where you're encouraged

0:40:59.840,0:41:03.520
to take on employees cuz now they make it more 
difficult for you to want to take on a full-time

0:41:03.520,0:41:08.000
employee because they you get punished if you 
let them go. And I'm sorry, firing is a real

0:41:08.000,0:41:12.480
necessity. Like sometimes you got to fire people 
because they just don't fit. And if you keep them

0:41:12.480,0:41:16.480
on forever, it's just baggage that's going to drag 
that business down. The job of every business is

0:41:16.480,0:41:21.280
to make money full stop. That is doesn't matter 
what you're doing, you need to make money. And if

0:41:21.280,0:41:25.280
you've got all this baggage and all these people 
that are just dragging you down and very difficult

0:41:25.280,0:41:31.920
to fire them, that just changes everything. But 
in terms of your experience business so far, like

0:41:31.920,0:41:38.960
what's the biggest mistake you've made? I think it 
would be not taking it as serious as I could have.

0:41:38.960,0:41:42.880
And like I I've already alluded to it right at the 
beginning of the conversation. For the first year,

0:41:42.880,0:41:48.640
I just t it like I was free of a job when actually 
I should have been the other way around. I should

0:41:48.640,0:41:53.040
have been working I was working twice as hard, 
don't get me wrong, but then going out and

0:41:53.040,0:41:57.600
partying with your friends on a Tuesday and being 
hung. It's there's a lot of traps to fall into.

0:41:57.600,0:42:02.880
Okay, the traps that I found were networking. You 
go to networking things because you believe that

0:42:02.880,0:42:06.720
might be a way of getting leads. However, a lot 
of people go to networking as a way of escaping

0:42:06.720,0:42:10.480
the realities of their harsh business that the 
harsh realities of business. So, they want to

0:42:10.480,0:42:16.000
get drunk. They want to get up for an entire two 
days and they'll all there's a lot of alcohol

0:42:16.000,0:42:19.440
involved. There's a lot of partying involved in 
the business world, especially in media. Yeah.

0:42:19.440,0:42:23.200
And it's that in itself is a trap because you 
believe you're networking so it's not bad. But

0:42:23.200,0:42:27.920
actually getting drunk on a Tuesday and being hung 
over till Thursday is pretty bad for business. So,

0:42:27.920,0:42:34.160
there's the realization of I need to that now 
I'm taking life a lot more seriously. I also

0:42:34.160,0:42:38.720
think the biggest mistake I made in year one was 
letting everything like all my things fade away

0:42:38.720,0:42:44.240
like my things. So what I mean by that is like my 
hobbies, my the things I want to learn the skills.

0:42:44.240,0:42:48.160
Business is a massive part of your life and you 
do feel like you live it every minute of every

0:42:48.160,0:42:53.360
day because it's not long it's no longer a job but 
I now purposely make time to learn something new

0:42:53.360,0:42:58.480
every 6 months to a year and I challenge myself to 
the most ridiculous things. What are your hobbies

0:42:58.480,0:43:04.880
and what things that you now? Okay. I'm four years 
in playing guitar and I'm all right now. I learned

0:43:04.880,0:43:08.880
to ice skate and started playing ice hockey. 
I got me my own boots. I obviously I ski and

0:43:08.880,0:43:12.640
ride motorcycles, but that was before I started 
a business. Oh, I'm learning German. I have a

0:43:12.640,0:43:17.120
tutor every Sunday. I'm learning to fly planes. 
Seriously? Yeah, man. I'm halfway through my

0:43:17.120,0:43:21.120
pilot's license and you got a lot of exams. I've 
got only two exams left and I've got I got to do

0:43:21.120,0:43:26.080
another 20 hours though. Have you always been this 
like quite hectic and like it's not hectic. I just

0:43:26.080,0:43:31.520
I want to live every moment of life. I want to do 
what? Oh, tie boxing. I started tie boxing as well

0:43:31.520,0:43:38.560
recently. For me, there's so many things that I 
want to do and the business is a big part of that.

0:43:38.560,0:43:42.800
That's some of my biggest goals, but it's not the 
be all and end all yet that allows other things to

0:43:42.800,0:43:47.920
happen. But I in the first year I was so focused 
on that was my dream and my goal and my ambition

0:43:47.920,0:43:52.640
that I forgot all these side things I can do them 
now. So to anyone thinking of going on reality TV,

0:43:52.640,0:43:58.080
would you would you encourage them to enter 
that world or be wary or what? I don't know

0:43:58.080,0:44:02.800
anymore. When I was younger, it was like one of my 
bucket list things. It was go to the gym, get big,

0:44:02.800,0:44:06.320
and then go on a reality show one day, start a 
business. These were things I was ticking off.

0:44:06.320,0:44:09.920
For me, it was a bucket list thing. I think it's 
a great way to make great people. You just got to

0:44:09.920,0:44:13.600
remember that no matter what you do, no matter 
what show you go on, you're not going to get

0:44:13.600,0:44:17.840
really to show your story. You just got to have 
fun with it. I guess if I was going to do another

0:44:17.840,0:44:23.920
one, I'd want to make sure it's something that 
is just fun. Even if I'm being made to look a or

0:44:23.920,0:44:28.880
even if I it's being edited so I look incompetent, 
whatever. As long as I'm having fun because it's

0:44:28.880,0:44:32.880
an experience that I wanted to do, then yeah, if 
it's an experience that you want to do because

0:44:32.880,0:44:36.480
you're trying to be famous or you want to be known 
for something and just you got to remember that's

0:44:36.480,0:44:41.440
outside of your control. For me, with the whole 
reality TV thing, I would say that you've got to

0:44:41.440,0:44:48.800
be very careful who you give your brand to because 
like you're saying, the editing can make anyone

0:44:48.800,0:44:55.280
look bad. And I've learned that I am not Like 
it's like it's such a trust. It's such a the brand

0:44:55.280,0:44:58.480
two brands collaborating even out there in the 
business world. You know how it is. And you are a

0:44:58.480,0:45:03.760
brand and you're collaborating with another brand 
and I would really check the T's and C's. I'd be

0:45:03.760,0:45:09.840
more careful and preferably not give my brand to 
anyone ever again and own my own content. There is

0:45:09.840,0:45:15.040
one thing I would do. What? I would do Dragon's 
Den. Thousand% thousand%. I've got this product

0:45:15.040,0:45:19.200
idea. It's been pissing me off for ages. And the 
thing is here's another annoying thing. trying to

0:45:19.200,0:45:23.360
stay focused on one thing and not let yourself get 
distracted. Yes. But I've got this business idea.

0:45:23.360,0:45:26.560
It's been burning in my head for ages and I'm 
trying not to do it because I want to focus on

0:45:26.560,0:45:30.480
growing this business first and then do that. But 
I would I do dragons then because no matter how

0:45:30.480,0:45:34.400
much you edit it, like you can make it like you 
fail, you make it like you succeeded, whatever.

0:45:34.400,0:45:39.520
That is a great opportunity to show something 
that you've created. And I love that. I love that.

0:45:39.520,0:45:43.040
Whereas the apprentice, you don't get that same 
thing, right? You don't get to talk about your

0:45:43.040,0:45:47.120
real business, give your real name. You get to 
say what you do. The only way people find out what

0:45:47.120,0:45:50.960
you do is if it comes to your social media because 
the rest of the time you're being made look. Yeah,

0:45:50.960,0:45:54.960
true. The other reality show you did was The 
Great Sex Experiment. I have to be honest,

0:45:54.960,0:45:58.880
I've never heard of that. So, what is that? 
I've never watched it. I've never heard of what

0:45:58.880,0:46:03.520
that that was a show where at the time they were 
like, "Oh, we're doing a like a dating show. I was

0:46:03.520,0:46:07.920
annoyed. It was summer. I was having a right." I 
was just really wound up about business and I just

0:46:07.920,0:46:11.920
I went and joined on. At the time it was called 
something else like random and then it became

0:46:11.920,0:46:15.680
that which is an awful name. I didn't really do 
anything interesting to be honest. I just drank

0:46:15.680,0:46:20.080
parted with all the guys that were there as a 
cast. It was during co as well so you couldn't

0:46:20.080,0:46:23.840
really meet anyone. So nothing else to do. Yeah. 
Yeah. My story is not really I got drunk. I

0:46:23.840,0:46:29.120
snugged an old woman. It made it to the papers. 
It gave you press. It gave you It was more just

0:46:29.120,0:46:33.520
controversial. Sometimes things don't need to have 
a reason. Like I just went I'm not doing anything

0:46:33.520,0:46:38.480
like why not? What's the worst that can happen? 
Yeah. I really I like I like in your life you are

0:46:38.480,0:46:44.640
like I said in the beginning you are really not 
you're unashamed to be yourself. you are happy to

0:46:44.640,0:46:49.920
take on these risks. They're not risks to you, but 
to do all these wild things and and it fits your

0:46:49.920,0:46:55.840
brand and I think you've definitely got something 
there with that brand of yours. I feel I think but

0:46:55.840,0:47:00.080
this is the thing is some people try to build a 
brand and some people try to build their personal

0:47:00.080,0:47:03.840
brand around what they want to be perceived as. 
Some people try and build a brand around what they

0:47:03.840,0:47:08.320
want to perceive to be. I have to build a brand 
and a business around who I am because if I don't,

0:47:08.320,0:47:12.560
you're either going to really like me or you're 
really not going to like me. I don't care either

0:47:12.560,0:47:16.400
way because no matter what happens, I'm going to 
continue doing what I'm doing and I'm happy doing

0:47:16.400,0:47:21.840
that. But if I didn't build my brand around who I 
am, then if I got a business and I decide I know,

0:47:21.840,0:47:26.240
I'm going to put myself naked on a billboard. 
That was one of the things we did as well. Put

0:47:26.240,0:47:32.080
myself naked on a billboard. If my brand 
wasn't me, then that would have kickback.

0:47:32.080,0:47:36.880
There'd be consequences. I might lose clients. 
But because my clients know that's who I am,

0:47:36.880,0:47:43.120
I could literally streak through I could go to a I 
could go to an award ceremony and pick up an award

0:47:43.120,0:47:48.320
with my hanging out. I definitely could probably 
get arrested, but the point No, I could do that,

0:47:48.320,0:47:52.880
but my clients wouldn't leave because they know 
that's that I'll be doing it for some sort of

0:47:52.880,0:47:57.200
marketing purpose. And I think that's a power in 
itself. No, I get it. And but but I understand

0:47:57.200,0:48:01.920
why a lot of people don't like that. Yeah. But 
listen, you're going to music artists and you've

0:48:01.920,0:48:07.520
got like the Taylor Swifts and then you've got the 
Amy Wine Houses and you've got the Elton Johns.

0:48:07.520,0:48:12.800
You've got you've these are such different brands 
and they are all successful in their own way and

0:48:12.800,0:48:18.000
they appeal to their market and marketing and 
you've definitely got a wide section. Everyone

0:48:18.000,0:48:25.680
with tattoos, that's like your I think market in 
a way. I think there there are rappers who are

0:48:25.680,0:48:29.840
literal murderers who are famous and have a huge 
fan base even though they've been proven guilty

0:48:29.840,0:48:36.960
of murdering someone. So if you can murder someone 
and be successful and have a your brand that way

0:48:36.960,0:48:40.800
and you've murdered someone, I'm pretty sure me 
doing silly little things whenever I find it funny

0:48:40.800,0:48:44.960
isn't that bad. Yeah. We don't want to encourage 
No, we don't encourage. But if you come at me, I'm

0:48:44.960,0:48:49.600
going to No, I'm joking. No, but I did and things 
like that. Yeah. more that you are yourself,

0:48:49.600,0:48:54.640
the more push back you'll notice because more 
people are hearing about you. And unfortunately,

0:48:54.640,0:48:58.000
as you grow and you come through that, a lot of 
time all you hear is the negative. But actually,

0:48:58.000,0:49:02.160
there's a lot of positive in there. And a lot of 
time for me, I find that I get people approach me

0:49:02.160,0:49:07.760
and say, "Oh, I saw this happen." And it's almost 
like you give them the ability to say, "I can be

0:49:07.760,0:49:12.720
myself." I just I'm just sick of fake. I don't 
have a telephone voice. You ring me, I'll go,

0:49:12.720,0:49:17.600
"Hey." Because the telephone voice to me is fake. 
I don't want any fake, any falsehoods. I've got a

0:49:17.600,0:49:20.800
group chat with all the people that I've met in 
business that come to my events. And if they try

0:49:20.800,0:49:25.360
and post a link to their social media, I'll delete 
it because I don't want to have this fake facade

0:49:25.360,0:49:29.440
of, "Oh, let's like each other's [ __ ] cuz we're 
not It's not fake. I'm a real person. It's a real

0:49:29.440,0:49:32.720
connection. I won't come to your house and go, 
hey, will you like my LinkedIn post?" For me,

0:49:32.720,0:49:36.400
I'm just done with the fake. Like, a brand is a 
brand. Yeah, I guess you could call what I have

0:49:36.400,0:49:40.800
a brand, but it's not. It's just me. If you meet 
me now, sometimes I'm high in energy and sometimes

0:49:40.800,0:49:44.880
I'm low and tired, but it's going to be me. I'm 
gonna swear by accident constantly because even

0:49:44.880,0:49:49.280
though I said I wasn't going to, I don't mean to. 
And I think it's your brand. It's your brand. But

0:49:49.280,0:49:55.280
is it or is it just me? Is a brand supposed to be 
just so true to your core values that it's that's

0:49:55.280,0:49:58.560
what people connect with? But unfortunately, we 
try to manipulate it because we want people to

0:49:58.560,0:50:03.840
connect. But if you manipulate it so much so it's 
not you anymore, then actually like Lord Sugar,

0:50:03.840,0:50:08.720
it's a massive disconnect. like my impressions and 
his perceptions of who he is as a person based on

0:50:08.720,0:50:13.280
his brand was a massive letdown with how he acted 
online because it wasn't in my eyes who he was.

0:50:13.280,0:50:17.280
True. Well, I think he Yeah, that's taking too 
far. But just to end on that note cuz I think

0:50:17.280,0:50:22.640
it's become very much about being yourself, not 
apologizing for yourself, allowing yourself to be

0:50:22.640,0:50:27.360
true to yourself, to the things that you want to 
do, to take the risks, to go for stuff, to expand

0:50:27.360,0:50:31.760
in that personality bubble or whatever it is. 
But there's a thing about having the confidence

0:50:31.760,0:50:37.040
to do that. And then there's the other thing about 
having the confidence to put that forward into the

0:50:37.040,0:50:40.880
world because obviously then you've got eyes on 
you. You put yourself out there. You have a big

0:50:40.880,0:50:44.640
personality. You do it. You're doing something 
and the people are looking and then the talking

0:50:44.640,0:50:47.760
starts and all that stuff. If anyone ever gets 
really bored and you want to scroll back through

0:50:47.760,0:50:53.840
700 posts on Instagram. There's two posts that my 
Instagram starts with. The first is a note from my

0:50:53.840,0:50:59.120
notes, screenshot of my notes. And when I was 23 
years old, I decided I wasn't going to do the same

0:50:59.120,0:51:04.000
as everyone else. Full stop. And I wrote this huge 
long manifesto essentially and I screenshotted and

0:51:04.000,0:51:07.520
I shared it social media because I said this is 
the most visible way I can share who I'm going

0:51:07.520,0:51:12.400
to be when I get older. It's still there now. And 
then the second post following that so you'll see

0:51:12.400,0:51:17.360
who I am as a kid cuz it's like I refuse to grow 
up. I refuse I will tell silly jokes and then the

0:51:17.360,0:51:22.240
next post is first they will ignore you then 
they will laugh at you. Then they will fight

0:51:22.240,0:51:27.600
you and then you will win. And that is the process 
that every single person if you want to achieve in

0:51:27.600,0:51:32.640
any area you will go through. I if you point me 
to one successful person, I will and I will show

0:51:32.640,0:51:37.520
you a million critics of that person. Yeah. First 
they will ignore you, then they will laugh at you

0:51:37.520,0:51:41.280
and that most people drop off at the laughing bit 
because it's too much. When they start to fight

0:51:41.280,0:51:45.520
you, that's when you really go, "Maybe I shouldn't 
do this." And then they just drag you back. They

0:51:45.520,0:51:49.920
drag you back into their world. But then event 
if you can push through that, you will win. And

0:51:49.920,0:51:53.840
it's just that simple. Yeah, they do try to drag 
you back in their world because why should you

0:51:53.840,0:51:56.960
get to do something different? Why should you 
get to be successful in that space? Why are you

0:51:56.960,0:52:00.880
that way? And I'm not that I don't like that. 
And that's what all this a lot of the lash out

0:52:00.880,0:52:04.320
and trolling is all about. It's why do you get 
to do that and I don't. That's how it what it

0:52:04.320,0:52:10.320
boils down to. But actually any single successful 
person in the world, show me them and show me one

0:52:10.320,0:52:14.960
without a I'm talking about millions of critics. 
Any single one of them will have a million critics

0:52:14.960,0:52:20.480
because you cannot be visual. You cannot grow. You 
cannot be obvious in the world and have everybody

0:52:20.480,0:52:27.040
like you. It just is not possible. Yeah. You 
can't be visible and not be talked about. And

0:52:27.040,0:52:31.360
if you're not talked about, you're not visible. 
And that's not a good thing. Yeah, man. Actually,

0:52:31.360,0:52:35.440
not everyone wants to be visible, but then 
it's a space for those who want to be, isn't

0:52:35.440,0:52:39.200
it? Even in your industries, even the ones that 
are faceless and you don't have a personal brand,

0:52:39.200,0:52:45.360
in their industries, they'll experience those 
things. Yeah. Yeah. Lewis, it's been educational.

0:52:45.360,0:52:49.680
You've been It's been very interesting speaking 
to you. It's been really interesting and I love

0:52:49.680,0:52:55.600
the whole perspective on the being yourself. Who 
knows if I'm right? I'll find out in 10 years.

0:52:55.600,0:52:59.520
I'm going to watch this, by the way. I'm gonna I 
save stuff like this to watch back in five and 10

0:52:59.520,0:53:05.200
because I want to know if what I said was right. 
Yeah. Also to see how far you've come. Good. We'll

0:53:05.200,0:53:12.328
do that later. Thank you for inviting me. Thank 
you for coming on the podcast. Thank you. [Music]