From Failed Apprenticeship to Building a £200M Travel Empire | Robin Deller

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In the 25 years I've been in
business, the number one thing I

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am non negotiable on is
honestly.

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Started from nothing and you've
grown your business to over 200

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million.
So there'll be some of my day,

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which is just I've seen this
thing, I've got this idea, I've

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played with it, can we do it?
And now we can evolve it.

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He's built businesses so
successful, Virgin and the

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Emirates Group both wanted a
piece of the action.

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Now a global multi £1,000,000
CEO in business with giants like

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P&O Cruisers.
This week on Beyond the

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Boardroom, Robin Della reveals
what it really takes to make it

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big in business.
Today we've got offices in the

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UK, we've got offices in Cape
Town, we've got offices in

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Brisbane, in Perth, in Australia
and we're opening in the US in a

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couple of weeks.
Common sense to me seems to be

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like a superpower.
I can clearly see that, you

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know, something from a common
sense perspective is obviously

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positive.
And even if somebody's saying

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that it's not.
And the the same is true of the

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reverse.
So, and what I realised is that

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when you build an organization
from the ground up, you've got

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so many skills that when if you
come into a business part of the

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way through and you end up in a
department doing something,

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there's so much to business that
you just will never understand

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because you won't have gone
through it.

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You have an incredible
background, you've achieved

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immense success in business.
You've started from nothing and

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you've grown your business to
over 200 million and you've sold

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it.
Well, you part sold to the

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Emirates Group, didn't you?
That's right.

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Yeah.
I mean that's a mega success.

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Do you feel that you're
successful?

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I guess it's what, what, what's
the definition of success?

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I think for me, I'm trying to
achieve personal goals everyday,

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both in terms of an evolution of
who I am and what I get back to

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the world and also the team that
I work with.

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So, you know, the business is
not about robbing, doing

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something that grew and became
something.

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It's about robbing, going on a
journey where he met different

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people, saw different
opportunities.

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And over a period of time, we've
kind of landed where we are.

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But they we could have gone off
in 100 different directions.

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And the people I could be
working with could be very

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different to the ones I am.
But all of the decisions I've

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made have been very purposeful.
The people I've employed, I've

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worked with, I've mentored and I
still mentored today.

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So yeah, I'm really proud of
where we are, but we kind of, I

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don't, I don't think about it in
that way.

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It's just about going in
everyday and trying to achieve

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within that moment something and
ideally try and do things

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differently in terms of a
constant evolution.

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There isn't an end game, there's
no point in time.

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And I think to some, to some
degree, some of the areas people

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make in the early stages is
wanting to build something quite

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specific.
And in reality, that's probably

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going to be disappointing when
you get there.

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So it's more about the journey.
And I know people say all the

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time, but it's very true.
If you can't enjoy the journey,

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I wouldn't, I wouldn't suggest
it's worth doing because it's

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the journey that should be
enjoyable.

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The outcome is unpredictable.
It's not always going to be

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within your control.
So yeah, enjoy the process of

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building, learning, mentoring
and creating because that's

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where the fun should be.
Yeah, I can tell that you're

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enjoying it, but do you think
you're successful?

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I, I think, I mean, I'm, I'm not
the kind of person that would go

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and talk about me and those kind
of using that kind of language.

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I think I've done what I've done
more than I hope to achieve.

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I I'm more proud of the people I
brought with me and the team

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we've built and the journey
we've been on and I think as a

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definition people would look at
us as having been successful.

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People definitely look at it.
You've been really modest.

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No, no, people definitely do.
But I appreciate, you know, for

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you business is so much more
than like you're saying that

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number or that thing.
It's about the creativity and

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getting really excited that
you're building something and

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you're bringing all these
amazing people.

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I mean, finding really good
people is a success within

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itself.
Once you've got them, you hang

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on, yes, you don't want to.
Ever.

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And, and that part of it is
random.

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Well, for me it's random.
So if I go back, I've, I've

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built a number of businesses
over the past 25 years.

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And the previous I, the business
I I built was called Fast Track.

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And actually one of my first
employees there, a lady called

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Natalie, who now is one of my
business partners.

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And imagine I'd happened to go
out for lunch at tgi Friday's

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and she served me lunch and she
was upselling.

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I can't remember what I ordered,
but was upselling every

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opportunity.
You want this, you want that.

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Her personality just came alive.
And for me, I felt she was

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wasting an opportunity by
working at TGI Friday.

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Like her capability was beyond
the need of that role.

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So I just said to her, you know,
here's my card, I know it's a

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bit random, here's my card.
I think, I think that, you know,

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there's a journey you could go
on that could be really

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exciting.
You've obviously got lots of

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capabilities, you know, give me
a call if you're interested.

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And she phoned the next day.
And if I fast track that, that

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story now, yeah, she's a
business partner, I'd imagine.

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But lots of examples like that
where my core team that have

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been with me over a long period,
none of them have have have been

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on boarded for a standard
recruitment process of I need

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someone get a recruitment
company, go out and then

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interview.
It's going to happen.

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Like that, it's coming.
I'm going to, I'm going to ask

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you about how you recruit, like
how what's your recruitment

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process actually is and what's
important.

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We'll, we'll get to that.
We'll get to that.

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For now, we're determining, you
know, you don't see success by

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the number you actually don't.
You are a living, breathing

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example of a you're a born
entrepreneur who loves the

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process, loves the journey, the
highs, the lows, you name it.

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The, the I I we spoke earlier
and you said something about the

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unpredictability of it.
You don't really know and you

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like being in that environment.
You like not knowing every

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single thing and being told, you
know, this is the direction that

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that's you, that's your
personality and fits perfectly

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with what you're doing.
There's something else he said

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to me that I loved in our pre
podcast call.

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I'm going to bring it up now.
Competition or smaller than my

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ambition.
I mean, that just gives me

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goosebumps.
That is the best thing I've ever

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heard.
I love it so much.

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What I mean by that is when
people, when you start,

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everybody wants you to explain
what is it you're trying to

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achieve.
And I've, I've never looked at

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the competition in terms of
trying to be them or do what

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they do because my concern's
always been that I'm just

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slicing a cake in half.
You know, whatever they're

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achieving, I'm going to be at
best part of that experience and

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that, that capability and that
profitability.

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So I definitely look for ideas,
but my desire to achieve

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whatever that is and that
changes constantly.

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Even today, you know, what I'm
looking to achieve over the next

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12 months, three years, five
years is different from perhaps

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what I perceived it would be 12
months ago.

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But my ambition is bigger than
what I see out out in the world

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in terms of our industry and the
people that do the kind of

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things we do.
I want to just have no ceiling

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to that.
And therefore, I believe that we

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can be as big and as as
successful as time will allow

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and our capabilities will allow.
But it's not in some kind of

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square box and predetermined.
Again, it goes back to the

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journey.
We're just reaching for the sky.

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And what we know is that we're
going to be doing things that we

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aren't even considering doing at
the moment.

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And therefore I can't look for
it because it doesn't exist.

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The evolution and what we become
will be self-evident at the

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point that we decide to do it,
but today it may not even make

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sense because we're not at the
right point in our journey to

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look at those options as being
relevant to where we are today.

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We're gonna talk because this
is, this is like the, this is

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the crux of, of business and
getting into business.

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It's like you have an idea.
Yes.

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And you think, oh, yes, I, you
know, that would be great.

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Oh, yeah, they doing it.
They making money from it.

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Yeah.
And then there's ways of going.

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Well, here's the reality.
How are we going to finance it?

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And different business people
look at different business

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styles.
You know, Elon Musk would say,

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well, you need to, you know,
don't, don't you don't get the

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money 1st and then do it like do
it without the money by

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presenting something.
But then you still have to have

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something to present.
So what do you present?

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There's all that kind of thing
which we're going to get to.

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But first we're going to talk
about how you started and you

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started at failure.
You started at a failed

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apprenticeship.
How did that not chew your

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confidence?
Yeah, I, I, I think when I was

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at school and immediately after
leaving school, I was living

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life probably more for my
parents than for myself.

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So I wanted, and I still have
that, that, that desire today.

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I want them to be proud of me.
So at school what that meant is,

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I don't know, like any parent,
you, you hope your, your child

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gets certain qualifications,
etcetera.

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But I, I wasn't naturally gifted
in that way.

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So I kind of got through school
and then an apprenticeship felt

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more grown up and a bigger box
to tick at a young age than

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maybe just going getting a
standard job.

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So I just kind of fell into the
horror apprenticeship world.

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I started off as a draftsman.
I didn't have any skills in that

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environment.
And actually that first job

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started me in a direction that
at that point I had no idea.

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But because I didn't enjoy the
role as part of that

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organization, they had a sales
arm and I would spend my lunch

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time with the salespeople.
They were younger, similar to my

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age, you know, slightly older,
but they were younger and seemed

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to be having fun, whereas
drawing was quite serious, quite

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monotonous, quite boring, and I
wasn't that good at it.

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So I like the characteristic and
the environment of sales.

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And that led me to question as
to how I'd bridge from what I

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was doing over to there.
But I was not successful at all

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at a young age.
And I think part of that was

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because I didn't really have any
desire to do anything.

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I didn't really even understand
the question.

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You know, when people say,
sadly, when you're, you know,

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you're at kind of leaving age at
school, So what do you want to

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do?
I think most of us have no

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concept.
We we understand the question.

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It's a difficult question.
It's a.

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Difficult question.
So, yeah, so, yeah, so, so I, I

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was waiting to find something in
life that that's kind of how how

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that period of time.
So you knew that you weren't

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good at this apprenticeship
thing that you were doing and

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you were just drawn to that sale
side because you thought, oh,

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that looks like fun.
Some people would dread I.

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Knew that.
Interested.

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You knew that interested you so
in a way that helped point you.

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That that gave me the direction
that I now need to let go of

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what I'm doing and pray perhaps
any expectations other people

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have on me and move across to
that.

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So just so our audience now, so
you're, so you started with a

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failed apprenticeship, then you
went into tell marketing

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teletext.
Is that right?

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So my bridge into sales, I had
some small jobs like I worked

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for people like the Auto Trader,
cold calling and I would say

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cold.
Calling thing.

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For anybody that sales is going
to be a part of your life.

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If you're building a business,
cold calling is probably the

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best apprenticeship.
You can have.

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It's brutal and you've got to
enjoy it because it is the

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hardest form of selling you were
ever going to do.

224
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,000
Anything that comes after that
is going to be easier.

225
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,560
So go if, if you've got an
opportunity to go out there even

226
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,120
for a short period of time and
participate in it, it's, it's an

227
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,040
amazing apprenticeship.
I've done it.

228
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,720
It's, yeah, it's brutal and it
humbles you.

229
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,400
It humbles you, it does humble
you, so I think it humbles you

230
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,080
from from that period of time.
I then buy pure luck.

231
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,760
In hindsight, I'd lost my job in
construction and I, I was just

232
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,280
looking for something to tide me
over and I found a, a, an advert

233
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,880
in the newspaper for Tele sales
and I said I'd done this kind of

234
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,920
cold calling like before, but
Tele sales job for travel.

235
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,800
I loved holidays in my 20s.
I travelled the world a a couple

236
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,400
of times.
I always loved travelling and I

237
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,160
just thought I'd just go and see
what it's about.

238
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,560
And you can kind of tell the
quality of the job when you go

239
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,800
in, you have your interview and
you get offered the job within 3

240
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,640
minutes.
So, you know, the skill set

241
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,960
they're looking for broadly is
not that great.

242
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,440
And they kind of give everybody
a chance.

243
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,480
But to my surprise, even though
I'd done some cold calling, but

244
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,200
not not to any great degree, I
went into that business.

245
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,880
That business was called
Gemstone Travel.

246
00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,040
And they basically sold flights
and package holidays to places

247
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:04,600
like Greece and Spain on TV.
And so it was all inbound calls,

248
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,040
which to me, I'm used to phoning
people who don't want to speak

249
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,040
to me.
So they're saying to me, people

250
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,080
will call me this found easier.
This sounded amazing and they're

251
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,800
going to want to go on holiday.
Well, holidays are amazing in

252
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,640
their own right.
So this call should be nice.

253
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,680
And the objective is to try and
find a holiday that they're

254
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,640
after within their budget.
And I stayed there for a year

255
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,000
and in that year I flew, I was
the number one salesperson

256
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,800
pretty much from the off course.
I then got promoted to

257
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,280
management and that gig gave me
an opportunity to understand

258
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,040
business because I was given
responsibility for a a hub of

259
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,960
the business in a single
location where I was responsible

260
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,320
for opening, closing the
profitability, spending the

261
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,320
money on marketing the sales
people.

262
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,520
And without knowing it, you
suddenly are starting to see the

263
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,080
seeds of business and how
different elements of business

264
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,880
effects of relevance.
So in that period, I'd met some

265
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,640
people in the company and I just
for whatever reason, I don't

266
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,680
know, there came a day after a
year of being there where I just

267
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,760
turned to three of my friends
and said, why don't we give it a

268
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,800
go?
I mean, I've no expectation or

269
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,400
desire to ever run a business,
but we're good at this.

270
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,000
And between the four of us,
we've got different skills that

271
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,680
collectively seem to equate to
the business we're running.

272
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,640
But we're running this for
someone else.

273
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,680
Why don't we try doing it for
ourselves?

274
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,800
So literally from that
conversation, to enter into the

275
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,800
industry, into the travel
industry, back then there was a

276
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,400
requirement to have £65,000 of
cash flow.

277
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,040
So we challenged each other to
go and find one quarter of that

278
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,920
over a weekend.
OK, So we all went away, We all

279
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,880
came back on Sunday evening and
one way, shape or form we'd

280
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800
managed to borrow, we didn't.
None of us had the money borrow

281
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,160
a collective sum of 65,000 that
that would then allow us to OK,

282
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,920
let's just.
Put this into perspective.

283
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,600
So you weren't that academic
right At school?

284
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,920
Not at all You.
Went.

285
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,360
And did an apprenticeship
basically to please your

286
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,920
parents, as a lot of us do when
we finish school and we try and

287
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:10,280
do what our parents want us to
do.

288
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,160
You realize you didn't like that
boring stuff.

289
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,720
So you then also saw that you
might like sales.

290
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,960
And then you naturally went into
these cold calling jobs that

291
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,440
evolved into cold calling in
travel centres, right?

292
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,600
And then that you found out
through that, that actually

293
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,800
there's an opportunity in
business as you got into

294
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,640
management position that you
could actually take this on

295
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,640
yourself.
So you started really from the

296
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,920
ground up and you figured out
your talent and then you found

297
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,920
the right people.
You at the time you thought they

298
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,880
were the right people and you
had to, from the idea, find a

299
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,680
way to finance the project.
That's, that's the key moment

300
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,880
now just to step into that.
Why did you need the finance?

301
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,520
What were you going to pay?
What were you going to do with

302
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,080
that money?
What was it in your head that

303
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,440
you needed?
Yeah, so.

304
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:04,720
Back then the money was required
as a deposit to give comfort to

305
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,920
AB to who are the governing
body, so it wasn't needed.

306
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,080
Our industry is cash generative.
People pay deposits for

307
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,320
holidays, so fairly quickly you
gain cash in the business.

308
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,440
I've never borrowed any money
other than at that point in time

309
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,080
over the past 25 years.
I've never had to go and borrow

310
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,280
money, but you have to satisfy
ABTA by having a cash flow to

311
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,680
you had to have.
That money in there, yeah, OK,

312
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,360
but of.
That 65,000, we probably only

313
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,840
spent 10 or 15,000 in terms of
some marketing monies and some

314
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,200
small recruitment fees.
And then we structured the

315
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,360
business and it was fairly
typical and still is today in

316
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,400
travel that people have paid
Commission on the phone.

317
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,760
So you're only paying for
success, and success generates

318
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,520
income.
But how did you convince people

319
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,520
to give you the money?
I think.

320
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,840
We, we, we, we, we always spoke
to our family.

321
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,000
And I think it's we, we were
fortunate that, you know, the

322
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,320
sum of money was not, I mean, it
was, it was of a decent sum.

323
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,040
It was about £15,000 each.
It wasn't crazy.

324
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,680
It wasn't crazy.
It's still a lot of money.

325
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,640
It's still a lot of.
Money, but we were going to

326
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,079
replicate something we were
doing.

327
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,280
We didn't have a business idea
that was unproven.

328
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,520
We'd got a business idea that
was proven.

329
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,280
It's just that we were paid a
salary previously because we

330
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,200
were doing that for somebody
else, OK.

331
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,800
Yeah, we kind of there was.
Some safety.

332
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:23,760
There was some.
Safety.

333
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:27,119
Yeah, you saw that it was
working, although it's it kind

334
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,280
of contradicts what you said
before about the whole ceiling

335
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,000
and don't copy the competition,
but there is a place for copied

336
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,880
in copying the competition, at
least initially.

337
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,600
Yeah, the basics.
Like, what is the, what is the

338
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,600
base plan that allows you to
exist and play in the game?

339
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,240
But yeah, you're right, you
know, and I think back then

340
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,080
things were more expensive in
general.

341
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,800
I think in today's world,
there's other ways of doing it

342
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,360
actually in the travel industry
certainly, where you wouldn't

343
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,880
need to find that sum of money.
You can go through consortia.

344
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,240
There's different consortia in
the industry and you can

345
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,560
participate in that.
But but yeah, that the good

346
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,800
thing about borrowing the money
though for all of us was the

347
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,200
concept of failure was non
negotiable.

348
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,800
It's quite a.
Lot of pressure and because

349
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,400
we'd.
Borrowed it off family like

350
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,040
there is no way we were going to
let them down.

351
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,480
So and we wanted to pay them
back as quickly as possible.

352
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,840
And as it turned out we'd paid
that money back in six months.

353
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,040
All that money had gone back to
those individuals within a six

354
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,200
month period.
But yeah, that that kind of

355
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,320
pressure, that commitment, I
think was quite healthy in the

356
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,000
early stage where we'd never run
a business.

357
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,720
I think had we been given the
money and somebody said, you

358
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,040
know, whatever happens, happens,
I don't know if we'd have been

359
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,560
that successful or as driven or
as committed, like this couldn't

360
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:41,640
fail for us.
It depends on.

361
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,720
Your personality type, because
there are the sort of business

362
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,960
people.
I mean, I had another

363
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,040
businessman that you you'll know
who was saying that he knows

364
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,560
people that you know, people
come to him all the time and

365
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,320
say, oh, I just think we need
more investment, more

366
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,760
investment, more, more, more.
And then for he thinks why

367
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,560
you've only just asked for that
a year ago.

368
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,800
Now you want more and then more,
and then they get A to banks

369
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,640
giving them loans.
And it's always the net.

370
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,440
For what?
Yeah.

371
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:03,960
For what?
Purpose.

372
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,480
For what purpose?
And you're not?

373
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:06,560
Understanding the value of
money.

374
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,320
I know in some of the later
businesses I've had where I've

375
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,040
had the benefit of having access
to money, I've squandered money

376
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:20,120
because I had it and I didn't.
I didn't perhaps value what I

377
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,160
was using that money for and
understand the benefit of that

378
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,120
money and the need for that to
be successful because if I lost

379
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,400
it, I lost it.
It kind of wasn't a big deal.

380
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,480
But yeah, in those early stages,
we were.

381
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,680
We had, you know, there were
four of us.

382
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,920
We had the capability with the
commitment to want to pay that

383
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:44,040
money back and I think we were
well set then if if this can

384
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,600
work, we have the how old were.
You at this stage I was the.

385
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:52,600
Eldest of the four, I would have
been 29, OK, and they would have

386
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,920
been around mid 20s pretty
young.

387
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,120
Did you have any mentors?
Anyone that you went to for

388
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:58,880
questions?
Who?

389
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:04,800
So there was a when I worked in
Gemstone, which was the travel

390
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,480
business where I started off
selling, there was a gentleman

391
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:08,920
there that came in called John
Kent.

392
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,680
He went on to build some very
successful businesses and sell

393
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,040
them for significant sums of
money.

394
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,800
He was in that business for half
of the year I was there and he

395
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,360
came in to evolve the business.
And to broaden the product range

396
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,360
and he mentored me and a number
of others.

397
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,760
And I'd say through that short
period of time, and he was tough

398
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,480
through that short period of
time, there have been probably

399
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,200
half a dozen successful
businesses come out of his

400
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,160
mentorship.
Awesome.

401
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,720
What a special.
Special person to know tough

402
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:48,880
love.
I mean, that's what it was.

403
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:49,960
It was tough love.
Yeah.

404
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,440
Because I.
I think about this, you know,

405
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,720
with myself, my growth, like do
I need a mentor?

406
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,880
Do I want a mentor?
How would that work?

407
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,120
Everyone has such different
styles.

408
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,400
But then it's nice to be also be
accountable to someone to, you

409
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,960
know, yeah, have that much
pressure.

410
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,560
Yeah, I.
I, you know, I, I think of

411
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,640
mentorship in gym.
I, I, I don't know that I would

412
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,560
work well with having a mentor
over a long period to achieve

413
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,680
what I'm trying to achieve.
I, I think mentorship is anybody

414
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,720
that gives you an answer to a
question you didn't realise the

415
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,760
answer to.
So, you know, I live my world

416
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,920
with asking 1000 questions and,
and where it's different to

417
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,600
school perhaps where teachers
are restricted with time,

418
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,200
they're focusing on a large
group of people and they have to

419
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,680
move on.
I realised in adulthood, those

420
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,800
rules have gone in the bin and I
could ask as many questions as I

421
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,560
want.
I could clarify, as long as I

422
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,480
was happy to put myself out
there that I didn't understand,

423
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,480
I could ask them to perhaps
restructure the explanation or

424
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,920
the answer so that I could
understand it.

425
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,480
And I could do that again,
again, again.

426
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,200
And over a period of time, you,
you realize that there are

427
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,120
different ways of learning.
And I, I found in adulthood and

428
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,680
certainly in business and still
today, that's the process I use.

429
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,240
You know, think of me like a six
year old.

430
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,440
Talk to me.
Yeah.

431
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,120
Like, I have no idea.
Yeah.

432
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,760
So I.
So I really lock it.

433
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:13,920
Yeah.
Because I know with that

434
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,400
knowledge, I'll be able to take
that knowledge and use it to my

435
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:16,920
advantage.
Yeah.

436
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,240
I think you've got enough.
Energy, there's a really good

437
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,200
energy off you.
I can give you something.

438
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,720
I can see you just running with
it and doing really well.

439
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,560
Yeah, but you need that energy.
You need to be fired up and and

440
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,560
do what you've done.
Because, as I say, to put into

441
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,120
perspective, you started from
really from this field

442
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:31,840
apprenticeship.
Yeah.

443
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,800
Then you realized you had these
talents.

444
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,560
You came up with this idea, you
raised the financing.

445
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:42,240
You then went on to start fast
Track, which you then sold to

446
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,600
Virgin Holidays and then went on
to start Image cruising, which

447
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,400
you then part sold to the
Emirates Group.

448
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,680
And you made a lot of money
doing it.

449
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,080
And you've had a really fun
time.

450
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,720
So the success is immense.
And what you've done is

451
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,160
admirable.
I mean, it's it's it's

452
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,680
inspiring.
It's absolutely brilliant, but

453
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,240
like you're saying, it's not by
chance.

454
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,960
It's very well thought through.
Yeah.

455
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,440
It's carefully, yeah.
Everything is a process of

456
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,080
evolution.
Everything the process changes

457
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,760
going back to, you know, you're
as good as the knowledge you

458
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,040
have and the people around you
have.

459
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,680
That's your collective
capability and your aspiration

460
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,000
sometimes is initially
restricted within that mindset

461
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,800
of this is what we can do.
You then over time realise you

462
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,760
don't necessarily have to have
all the knowledge as an

463
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,520
individual or even as a team.
You can pull knowledge in and

464
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,360
you can use that knowledge to
give you capabilities that

465
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,760
either you then go to understand
and you own and you build from,

466
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,920
or you can bring them in
temporarily to give you a

467
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,200
capability to kind of elevate
you to a position and

468
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,480
temporarily.
And then that knowledge can

469
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,280
disappear again because it's
only of the moment.

470
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,120
So yeah, that's.
Exactly right.

471
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,240
Everything's.
About it, especially in.

472
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,680
Marketing in my industry it's so
it's absolutely correct and and

473
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,800
you bring in those capabilities
and that they change all the

474
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,080
time yeah, and.
That's it.

475
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,440
You, you.
You've just got to be broad

476
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,720
enough to know the the
limitation that sits within your

477
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,280
Business Today is almost
certainly you and the way you're

478
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,520
thinking about things.
That is mind blowing that.

479
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,320
Is crazy.
To hear it like that, and I

480
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,840
think especially.
If you're the one that's running

481
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,000
the business people, when you
run a business, people are

482
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,240
reluctant to come up to you and
say you're thinking wrong,

483
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,200
you're doing things wrong.
They're not comfortable doing

484
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,560
that.
And, and I think it's through an

485
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,240
evolution of trying things,
putting yourself out there,

486
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,720
proving them, isolating them,
tracking them, testing them,

487
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,920
succeeding from them, that you
start to see the way business

488
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,760
works, that it's not one leap of
faith to go from a point you are

489
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,840
at today to a point in the
future.

490
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,760
It's made-up of 1000 steps.
Yeah.

491
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,280
And every step, when you break
it down, becomes much more

492
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,880
palatable.
And then with each step, you can

493
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,480
almost certainly break that down
into other steps that allow you

494
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,240
to quantify which of those steps
is going to add benefits to you

495
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,920
as a business and which ones are
going to deteriorate from your

496
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,680
capability.
Because all you want to do is as

497
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,960
soon as you things see things
that are not working, you want

498
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,160
to push those to one side.
We, we operate a traffic light

499
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,920
system in the business.
I've always done that.

500
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,880
Green.
Shoots so green is a color

501
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,680
proven.
We love it.

502
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,760
You want to build upon it, take
it forward.

503
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,960
How do we evolve that green to
become bigger amber?

504
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,320
Not sure.
We're not unhappy, we're not

505
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,600
happy.
It's unproven.

506
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600
We need to keep working on it,
but over a period of defined

507
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,840
time it needs to become green or
red and then red.

508
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,320
How quickly can we see that
colour appear?

509
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,280
And then you just need to get
rid of it.

510
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,800
So you're trying to, in the
early stages, you've probably

511
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,080
got lots of red flags going,
some amber's, you're not quite

512
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040
sure on some greens.
And you want that colour scheme

513
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,840
to change in your favour where
you've got a Bank of green.

514
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,440
That's kind of your security for
growth.

515
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,840
You've got amber, which means
you're evolving.

516
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,960
We don't know these things may
work, may not, and red is

517
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,800
inevitable.
You're going to fail.

518
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,680
And what's the definition?
Well, the definition is trying

519
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,120
something that you didn't know
would or wouldn't add value.

520
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,960
You know, understand it.
Truly, it's of no use to you

521
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,080
going forward.
Push it to one side.

522
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,440
Yeah, got to be.
Brutally honest with yourself to

523
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,840
do that.
What I mean, you touched on it,

524
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,600
but what is your relationship
with money?

525
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,760
How has it changed over time in
terms?

526
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,560
Of like how do you?
See, money, is it your friend?

527
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,240
Is it your foe?
Are you good with money?

528
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,560
I mean, on the most elementary
level because you have a lot of

529
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,560
business people, yeah, that
might be really good at what

530
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,640
they do, but they're horrible
with money.

531
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,960
They don't invest well, yeah,
they just don't like the

532
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,960
numbers.
They give it to the someone

533
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,840
else, the finance guy.
And actually if it wasn't for

534
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,600
the finance guy, they'd probably
be in trouble and they would

535
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,560
have gone bankrupt 6 times.
I'm probably.

536
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,760
Probably slightly in that camp.
I'm quite, well, I'm quite

537
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,800
frivolous.
So I, I'm not stupid with money,

538
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:59,320
but equally I'm not living for
some future point where, you

539
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,040
know, if I save and save and
save and save when I turn 70,

540
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,480
I'm OK or I, I believe everybody
should make the most of their

541
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,800
life.
I think you've got to make sure

542
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,680
that you are not spending beyond
your means.

543
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,720
But equally, enjoy today, enjoy
the moment.

544
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,160
I love giving more than
receiving.

545
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720
So I love sharing my, my
financial achievements with

546
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,840
others, whether that's
charities, whether that's

547
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,240
friends, whether that's
relatives.

548
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,120
So I enjoyed that more than the
OK.

549
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,600
OK, let me, let me rephrase
this.

550
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,160
So there's also people, lots of
business people out there that

551
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,920
are, let's say there's an
obsession with money, OK, the

552
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,880
other side of it where they will
do everything, they will sell

553
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,080
everything they have.
They will put the whole business

554
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,680
on their house.
They will do all of that and

555
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,160
every penny that they make will
go straight back into that

556
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,880
Russian roulette, right?
And sometimes they lose that

557
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,520
all, but there are those too.
So what do you say about that?

558
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,440
Well.
I guess I had advice or we've

559
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,720
got an order to that I've used
for 20 years, one way, shape or

560
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,560
form.
His advice was always that

561
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,840
sensible business people cash
out to some degree within a

562
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520
framework where they they stop
going to the casino if you like,

563
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,760
in the way they start well.
Said I can't, yeah.

564
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,640
And his, his advice was always,
you know, if you're doing well

565
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,800
as a business, typically it's a
very broad statement, but to get

566
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,280
free successive years of growth
is pretty damn good in most

567
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,440
industries.
So if you're able to grow the

568
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,440
business to an extent where the
value is there and the success

569
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,320
has been driven, I don't think
that it's going to continue

570
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,880
forever, continue forever.
Yeah, you don't need to go and.

571
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,040
Sell the, the company and the
way I've always done it is some

572
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,400
kind of liquidation.
So as I say, we've, we've

573
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,800
imagined over 3 iterations, I've
diluted my shareholding to cash

574
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,920
out so that I've got a
comfortable amount of money to

575
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,640
go and live the life I want to
live.

576
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,320
And I've left a big chunk of
money within the business

577
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:10,560
because I believe in the
business.

578
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,520
I believe in it's growth.
So I I'm in that, that, that

579
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,200
kind of, I guess comfortable
situation now where the money

580
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,320
that I've got within, imagine if
it all went, it wouldn't matter.

581
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,000
But having it there does give
you as much as I'm saying

582
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,200
doesn't money doesn't matter.
It gives you that extra drive

583
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,240
to.
I don't think about the success

584
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,320
of the business and the growth
of the business being a

585
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,120
financial outcome, but it is.
But that's not his purpose.

586
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,800
Yes, that's how I understand.
I understand so on that it leads

587
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,360
me very nicely into it's your
values.

588
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040
What are what are your values?
You know, in business what's

589
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,400
important to you what, what's a
total no, no or so.

590
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,160
So the businesses for me success
of businesses will be based on

591
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,840
partnerships and they could be
partnerships internally within

592
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,800
your organizations with staff.
They could be externally with in

593
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,480
our world suppliers,
distributors and the common

594
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,400
denominator in the 25 years I've
been in business, the number one

595
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520
thing I am non negotiable on is
honesty.

596
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:24,040
And I think that having stood by
that core principle over that

597
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:31,600
period of time has allowed me to
create a group of people that

598
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,680
are successful.
Because whether honesty is good

599
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,640
news, bad news, it's reality.
It puts you in a position of

600
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,280
making decisions based on facts
rather than fiction.

601
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,120
It no, it allows you to
delegate.

602
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920
It allows you to know that if
you're asking somebody to

603
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,800
support you and as you grow
you're going to have to be doing

604
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,320
more and more delegation.
You know that the honesty of

605
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,640
that relationship will allow you
to delegate productively, will

606
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,400
allow you to invest
productively, and will allow you

607
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,000
to create long term partnerships
with all of those people rather

608
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,040
than short term wins.
And that's certainly what I

609
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,360
found over time.
Most of the organizations that

610
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,720
work with us today are
organizations where the people

611
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,840
we work with, we absolutely
trust each other.

612
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,680
We give and take short.
Period of time so there could be

613
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,000
a. 100 words I could use, but
I'd say everything stems from

614
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,080
that.
If if you haven't got that, I

615
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,000
would suggest nothing else
really is an accurate statement.

616
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,280
It's a perception based on what
somebody said, but you don't

617
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,880
know whether that statement in
in its first instance was

618
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,280
honest.
But once we're honest, now also

619
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,800
everybody has then this desire
to help each other.

620
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,960
So it starts to create a really
lovely environment where people

621
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:03,240
are nurtured and the ability to
help, support, grow and deliver

622
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,320
to each other.
It just happens.

623
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,640
You don't have to force it.
You don't have to write down a

624
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,640
set of rules.
You just create an environment

625
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,760
that's that's ripe for
everything that good, that's

626
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,920
good, that can come from, that
will naturally happen.

627
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,320
Good values.
Good trust.

628
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,680
And then that your clients know
they can trust you and they know

629
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,560
that when you say something,
you're really going to do it.

630
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,360
You mean it.
You do everything for them.

631
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,760
Staff everybody and you've got
to live by it.

632
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,560
Everything, yes, and sometimes
that means that honesty means

633
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,760
that you're going to be having
conversations that you'd rather

634
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,520
not have and you could divert
from.

635
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,480
You could be slightly dishonest,
but actually the consistency of

636
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,920
a message.
And I always say, you know, in

637
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,080
my business industry, I'd kind
of call myself

638
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,200
characteristically as, as
Marmite.

639
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,360
You know, some people don't like
the reality of the honesty, the

640
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,640
truth.
Others would rather maybe take

641
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,880
the softer approach where
everything is quite cuddly and

642
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,280
nice.
It's not reality, but it's not

643
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,200
confrontational.
And some people prefer that

644
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,560
journey.
I, I personally don't, I think

645
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,760
that if somebody has something
to say to me about anything, I'd

646
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,560
rather just tell me what it is,
let me understand it and let's

647
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,480
work with it and let's do
whatever we need to do.

648
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,880
And I think once you start
telling half truths, you then

649
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,760
end up in a journey of what did
I say the last time we spoke?

650
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,960
What did I say?
Whereas if I just now, I just

651
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,480
said what was, what is, I don't
have to try and think about our

652
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,680
conversation and how this is
going to go.

653
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,920
I'm just going to continue it
from where we left off.

654
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,720
And if I've said something
before, I'd stand by it today.

655
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,880
And if I say something today,
I'll stand by it in the future.

656
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,920
And actually what you realize is
people fall into two camps.

657
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Some people just naturally cling
to that, that, that kind of way

658
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,480
of being that that honest
persona and they they like you

659
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,800
for it.
Others struggle with it

660
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,760
initially, but there'll come
points in time during the

661
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,720
journey and the relationship you
have where they see the value

662
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,560
and they see that perhaps some
of the things you've said or the

663
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,960
conversations you've had where
honesty has been quite negative,

664
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,280
They see that actually there's
benefits they've gained further

665
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,400
down the line.
Yeah.

666
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,080
And the fact that that reality,
I just think life's.

667
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,280
Too short to to not tell the
truth.

668
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,840
Just say how you feel, you know,
even in silly things, you know,

669
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,040
people cheating and things like
I think, well, why didn't you

670
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,360
just tell them you're not
interested?

671
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:24,440
Anymore.
Yeah.

672
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,199
You don't need to do that, you
know why don't you?

673
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,000
You can, you can simplify it.
Take a lot of the stress away.

674
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:29,679
Yeah.
It's to save you.

675
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,920
Time it's just inefficient
exactly one thing that that I

676
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,840
find is I don't like
inefficiency yes I don't like

677
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,159
time wasting that that's
annoying to me so you similar

678
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:40,960
yeah I'm very.
Similar and I think when we look

679
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,960
at KPIs every business, if you
haven't got them, you'll, you'll

680
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,760
end up with them as you grow and
they're helpful.

681
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,639
So the KPIs we set within our
business, we define through

682
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,080
doing it ourselves.
So I don't know if we're going

683
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,880
to for example, in our in our
business, we're going to send

684
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,240
tickets to customers for their
holiday.

685
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,960
I would get one of my senior
team to spend hours sending

686
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,440
tickets to understand somebody
who's got the right mindset is

687
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,000
has a capability of doing that
role.

688
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:21,000
What what's achievable without
going to like an extreme

689
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,880
scenario, what is
underperformance and therefore

690
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,760
what should we be looking to
achieve and therefore who are we

691
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,920
looking to employ?
So and that exists pretty much

692
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,520
within all the KPIs.
We've probably got 100K PIS in

693
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,280
the business.
But rather than guess what the

694
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,240
outcome should be and what the
KPI should look like, why don't

695
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,480
we just do the job?
You know, if we got to take the

696
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,520
rubbish out.
Yeah.

697
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,720
How many black, black bin liners
can you fill up and send out to

698
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,760
have been 100 yards away over a
period of an hour?

699
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:49,840
I don't know.
Let's try it.

700
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,080
We'll all grab them.
Do it.

701
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,280
It's a good way of.
Doing it, yeah.

702
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,760
And then we.
Know when we then ask the staff

703
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,600
to deliver on that KPI, we know
that KPI has been proven.

704
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,080
We know it's sensible and then
it's fair to expect that that

705
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,200
will be the delivery and that
will go into the expectations of

706
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,320
the business that that's what
we're looking to achieve.

707
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,160
OK.
So you decide to sell your

708
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,280
business.
Fast track to Virgin?

709
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,440
Yes.
Did you meet Richard Branson?

710
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,240
I've not met Richard.
I've had letters from Richard.

711
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:21,600
When we sold, you had a letter.
From him Richard has.

712
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,600
People that do those.
Things for him, right?

713
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,680
OK, so you get into this room
with these people.

714
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,280
Yeah.
Were you intimidated?

715
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,360
Were you afraid I.
Honestly thought I would.

716
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,240
Did you?
Sweat or did you or did you feel

717
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,960
I think my.
Character I know what I.

718
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,520
Got yeah, so I.
Became I ended up on the board

719
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:46,560
at Virgin holidays and I, I
think I was, I predicted that I

720
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,920
would be intimidated, if that
makes sense, because I assumed

721
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,760
I, my, my worth was less than
this.

722
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,360
Like who am I?
They are working for this

723
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,560
amazing brand.
I've loved the virgin brand.

724
00:36:58,640 --> 00:36:59,840
I love the.
Virgin brand.

725
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,920
I love the Virgin brand.
That's so good.

726
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,800
All of a sudden I've gone from
running an independent company

727
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,680
to be in proposition by the
brand to then selling to the

728
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,800
brand, to them being on the
board of Virgin Holidays as a

729
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,440
brand.
And then after maybe two or

730
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,640
three board meetings, I realized
that any preconceptions I had

731
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,400
about what those people would
look like, how they'd behave and

732
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,720
how I would struggle, they went
away.

733
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,400
And actually, I kind of felt
empowered.

734
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,920
And what I realized is that when
you build an organization from

735
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,600
the ground up, you've got so
many skills that when if you

736
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,840
come into a business part of the
way through and you end up in a

737
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,080
department doing something,
there's so much to business that

738
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,320
you just will never understand
because you won't have gone

739
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,200
through it quite right.
You wouldn't have need to go

740
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,760
through it.
So I felt that I was able to

741
00:37:52,760 --> 00:38:02,160
give those board meetings a new
take, a new view of whatever the

742
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,480
subject matter might have been
in those board meetings.

743
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,840
Obviously over a period of years
that changed regularly.

744
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,960
But now I, I believe I added
genuine value to that board

745
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,560
meeting and I, I got to the
point where I was excited to go

746
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,680
to them.
I felt valued in them and the

747
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,320
feedback I got from them was
positive as well.

748
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,400
OK, so.
You, you were scared of first

749
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,920
and then you grew into the role
and now let's take it further.

750
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,560
So then you go to the Emirates
group or they come to you.

751
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,320
How does that work?
They so again.

752
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Same they proposition.
You so they proposition you dare

753
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,000
I say it's even a little it's a,
it's a step up there.

754
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:43,880
And and then you can I say give
away 50% more than 50% was 51

755
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,480
percent, 51% because then they
or the majority stakeholders in

756
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,360
the business.
And how does that feel?

757
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,160
First of all, because it's your,
your baby and you've made that

758
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,040
decision.
And I'll ask you why you made

759
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,760
that decision.
But then also there's seller's

760
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,520
remorse fully sell you sell in
the business, but then someone

761
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:10,160
else has majority power over
over you who know all of this

762
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,600
and have this history.
How does that work with your

763
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,000
mind?
Like how are you able to process

764
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:15,680
that?
I think.

765
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,520
So when we sold to Virgin, I
would say seller's remorse

766
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,080
kicked in quite quickly and in
hindsight, when you say quite.

767
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,480
Quickly six months, weeks
within.

768
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,960
Weeks I I was I was questioning
you were.

769
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:31,840
Questioning why?
Why did I?

770
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,960
Do it.
So financially it was a good

771
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,360
decision, but I, I kind of, I
didn't realize that what you're

772
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,160
left with is nothing.
You know you've got money, but

773
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,880
now you are almost alone in the
because all the staff stay,

774
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,920
obviously they say.
Your stuff, your stuff that

775
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,680
you've nurtured becomes someone
else's stuff.

776
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,600
It's hard so.
They all stay there.

777
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,880
All my friends now are at work
in the company I used to to own.

778
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,720
So it it was helpful to me
understanding what that

779
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:06,480
feeling's like and the value of
the money and the celebration.

780
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,560
There was no celebration.
I didn't feel like celebrating.

781
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,560
Yeah.
So that crescendo.

782
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:13,960
It didn't occur, You know that
this.

783
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,800
Is a very real thing a lot of
business people have serious

784
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,520
seller's remorse so I.
Think that then allowed me with

785
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,960
imagine to have a different
approach and understanding as to

786
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,600
what if you're looking for
someday where this happens and

787
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,040
you know, fireworks and beliefs,
that's not going to happen.

788
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,200
So what are you doing and why
are you doing it?

789
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,600
And I think for me, when we
started Imagine my desire,

790
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,000
whereas Fast Track was auk
business sold to Virgin holidays

791
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,720
operated again the UK business.
I just wanted to challenge

792
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:49,280
myself, understand my
capabilities and therefore

793
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,720
imagine there's always going to
be an international business.

794
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:55,440
So today we've got offices in
the UK, we've got offices in

795
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,720
Cape Town, we've got offices in
Brisbane, in Perth, in Australia

796
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:00,360
and we're opening in the US in a
couple of weeks.

797
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,200
So that was the journey there.
But, but the difference between

798
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:10,800
the Emirates Group and Virgin is
Virgin decided upon buying the

799
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,040
business, they wanted to change
it and they made multiple

800
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,040
changes and they made them
relatively quickly and which

801
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,560
always seemed odd to me, why we
would pay so much money and then

802
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,040
you'd want to change it at the
moment you got it.

803
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,360
It hurts as.
Well, yeah, it's like.

804
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,440
The divine to try and not take.
It personally you think why the

805
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,240
divine?
Mentality and I think people are

806
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:34,160
much more and we, we sold 51% in
2015 / 10 years on now the word

807
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,960
divine now is much more familiar
with people.

808
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,040
I think, yes, it's certainly
from a business perspective.

809
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,200
The mentality of the group in
Dubai is completely different to

810
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,880
the mentality that I saw come
from the Virgin Group and

811
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,520
probably most UK businesses.
They are not looking to change

812
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,360
the business.
I've grown the business since

813
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,800
that purchase back in 2015.
The decisions and the way we've

814
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,640
grown the business have been my
decisions.

815
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,800
Every time I've needed support
to go and evolve or perhaps do

816
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,840
an acquisition, we did an
acquisition in Australia 5 or 6

817
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:17,520
years ago.
They have supported me in a way

818
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,720
that I would never have assumed.
They have been the best business

819
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:26,560
partner you could ever hope for.
Yes, they've got expectations

820
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,600
obviously and we've got budgets
to me etcetera.

821
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,440
But in terms of their belief in
me, their belief in the business

822
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,240
and what they want from the
business, they want me to enjoy

823
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:44,840
the process of making this
company the best it can be, and

824
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,400
they're willing to back that
concept, whatever that might be.

825
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,320
So they're more backers?
Yeah, they're more backers of

826
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,720
you.
Yeah, they they.

827
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:52,800
Give you the confidence and
obviously they've got

828
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,440
infrastructure support
mechanisms to assist in some way

829
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,960
through that process.
But sometimes the biggest hurdle

830
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,200
you have when you run a business
is somebody giving you the

831
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,400
confidence that you can.
Because especially when you're

832
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,040
AC or if, if, if you're starting
your own company, probably

833
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,080
everybody questions why you
start your own company anyway.

834
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,000
So those those those feedbacks
can be get your job instead.

835
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,240
Get your job instead.
Yeah.

836
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,560
Why are you doing this?
You know, don't take these

837
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,760
risks.
So I think now we're in a really

838
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,000
fortunate position now where
we've got shareholders that are

839
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,960
hugely supportive, are more than
happy for us to go and, and, and

840
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,480
say with the launch in America
in a few weeks, that will be the

841
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,680
biggest ambition we've ever had.
It's the biggest market in the

842
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,160
cruise industry, 10 times bigger
than the UK.

843
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,040
And but we'll start it as if
it's a start up.

844
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,040
It'll be the same process.
You know, we'll start small,

845
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,560
we'll learn, we'll grow.
As soon as we see green, we'll

846
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,000
bank it amber, we'll reflect
red, we'll push to one side.

847
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,200
The only benefit we have now is
we can do things at speed

848
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,200
because we know the scale.
We know the process and scale

849
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,760
OK.
So you now you're on a different

850
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,360
level when it comes to pricing,
what you charge and all this

851
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,320
pricing models.
But going back just to the

852
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:11,000
original days when you had to
charge someone for something and

853
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,240
you had to ask for money and
anything like that.

854
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,240
Did you ever have this little
feeling the similar to the one

855
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,240
in the boardroom where you went
in for the first time with

856
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:23,000
Virgin?
I feel a little bit intimidated.

857
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,480
Did you ever think, Oh, I I feel
guilty charging almost I feel,

858
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,080
or did you always know that's my
value?

859
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,200
I'm OK to charge because I'm
very sort of business as

860
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,880
business.
I mean, you understand the

861
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,520
psychological question.
I.

862
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,680
Understand.
And I, I think actually the way

863
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:44,640
Imagine works that that hurdle
has been what's helped us grow.

864
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:52,680
So we've created a business that
curates cruise holidays and the

865
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,760
message to the consumer is
value.

866
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:01,440
So the value proposition is
drawn from a ton of negotiations

867
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:11,480
by individual suppliers.
So we are trying to buy well and

868
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,080
we're trying to offer the
consumer an opportunity to

869
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,920
experience something at amazing
value.

870
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,200
So that kind of methodology of
the way our business works and

871
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
we're known for value.
Our, our biggest message is

872
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,400
we're a value proposition.
We're not cheap.

873
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,480
Our average holidays are over
£5000 a person, but they're

874
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,360
great value.
But those that, that, that

875
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,080
business kind of became through
an understanding that actually

876
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,240
people will pay.
So when you say, you know, do

877
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,400
you, do you have concerns about
charging?

878
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,760
Actually, I don't.
What my concern would more be

879
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,560
about is if they pay, have I
given them value for whatever

880
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,440
that might be?
So am I abusing the

881
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,080
relationship?
Because there will be many

882
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,200
opportunities in business for
you to have a quick win.

883
00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,880
Somebody perhaps hasn't seen
something or misread something.

884
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,440
Or you can be discreet and maybe
gain.

885
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,840
All I know from my journey is
the there's no longevity.

886
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,240
You can't build a budget that
say says that's going to happen

887
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,360
and when it's going to happen or
what the outcome will be.

888
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,360
So what you're looking for is
consistency and therefore

889
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,520
knowing your value, whatever,
whether that's you as a person

890
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,960
doing something, whether that's
your company offering a service,

891
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,040
people will pay.
And actually the hardest thing

892
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,800
is as a consumer is finding a
company to trust that can give

893
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,520
you that thing, that service,
whatever it might be that you're

894
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,440
after.
So that's really that's the gap

895
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,720
you're trying to fill.
Not question, but am I worthy?

896
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,640
No, I've built this thing.
Is it right to charge for this

897
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:46,880
thing?
Am I charging too much?

898
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,560
The customer will determine the
value.

899
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,080
So if you are charging too much,
sales will slow down.

900
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,560
If you're not charging enough,
sales will be too rapid.

901
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,840
It will find it's place where
you've landed on the consumer

902
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,600
acknowledging through the
purchasing mechanism that they

903
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,560
are happy and content with the
value.

904
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,520
You being happy through your
returning investment that the

905
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,360
money you've invested is now
driving profit and you just want

906
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,520
to, once you've understood that
environment, protect that.

907
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,880
And then the business going
forward should be based on.

908
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,000
That's the foundation that
everything we do are based on

909
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,800
the core principles of we're a
undefined team between us, the

910
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,480
consumer, the supplier, the
retailer, whoever it might be,

911
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,000
fairness is what we're looking
for.

912
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:36,920
Value.
We all want to see value in each

913
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,160
other, whether it's monetary
value or personal value.

914
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,120
And everybody will have a
different opinion as to what the

915
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,880
definition of that is.
And the way to to deal with that

916
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,680
is to ask, you know, what do you
want out of this?

917
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,160
And then to commit, OK.
So if we move forward now, I

918
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,400
know what you want and you
understand what I need, my

919
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,480
commitment to you is that this
is what we're going to do.

920
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,360
This is how we're going to do
it.

921
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,320
This is the period of time,
however.

922
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,600
If I may, clients do change
their mind and then they want

923
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,400
something and it changes.
You have that too.

924
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,840
It's not always that's linear, I
think in.

925
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,240
Certain industries probably more
than and I, I understand what

926
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:16,920
you're saying.
I can think of certain areas

927
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,560
I've worked in where when you
start talking about marketing or

928
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,560
IT or data, those things kind of
wobble a bit in terms of the

929
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,840
definition of, but I think
you've just got to lock it in.

930
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:37,080
So my attitude would be like my
success is making real the

931
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,200
commitment I've made for, you
know, either on my own behalf or

932
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,520
on the behalf of the business to
give you something that you

933
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,240
desire in a predetermined
fashion over a predetermined

934
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:52,560
period.
Yeah.

935
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,360
So I would then take that
commitment.

936
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,280
I mean, I would take that
commitment hugely seriously.

937
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,520
We live off of these commitments
because what they do is they

938
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,800
create ACV.
As I explained it internally, I

939
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,400
just want a better CV next year
than this year.

940
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,520
You know, I want more people
saying we work with imagine we

941
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,280
work with Robin.
We did these things and it was

942
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,120
great, OK.
And I just want that to grow.

943
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,720
And the power of that is
effectively what's going to open

944
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,960
the doors going forward.
And you'll see as you grow and

945
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,000
as you deliver and as you're as
you but deliver on your

946
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,880
promises.
Or if you're not, the moment you

947
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,640
realize you're not, be very open
and take that story to the

948
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,520
individual.
I mean from.

949
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,400
My industry and what I do
because marketing is sometimes

950
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,720
considered a fluffy thing, a
little extra, you know, people

951
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,680
of businesses know, you know you
need it.

952
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,280
Investments vary 4%, ten
percent, 12% depending on

953
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,640
whether you're in whatever you
want to, however you want to

954
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,520
look at it, whether it's digital
AI, you know, you can carry on

955
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,880
and on and on.
But you know, the way that I

956
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,120
look at this is I, I go back to
like my consulting roots and,

957
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:01,320
and the value almost a down to
an hourly level, but I, I really

958
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,160
look at the sales, you know,
when we're since I've joined, my

959
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,480
team have joined and you've done
this initiative and that

960
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,240
initiative.
What exact monetary benefit have

961
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:16,640
you had from us?
And I get really worried about

962
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,720
that.
You know, it's like my thing.

963
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,760
I have to know that otherwise I
feel immensely guilty.

964
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,280
And I want to know.
And if it's not positive, I will

965
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,720
make sure it is positive.
And, and that's how I look at

966
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:30,840
it.
I, I believe maybe there's, you

967
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,960
know, in a way that sales is, is
it's so important.

968
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,960
Ultimately, even marketing
people, you know, you're taking

969
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:37,760
something to market, but at the
end of the day, you want to sell

970
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,680
your products, you want to
present them in the right way

971
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,400
for that brand, make it look
amazing.

972
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,880
But your your job as a marketing
agency, as a marketing hire is

973
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,320
to move the dial on on those
sales full stop.

974
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,840
And I think.
Some industries, estate agents

975
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,800
like in my personal life, estate
agents, well, I don't know, you

976
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,280
know, they've they've got a
reputation probably not so bad

977
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,160
today actually, but historically
bad reputation about being open

978
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:02,720
up.
I was going.

979
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:06,080
To see a estate agent today for
the podcast, but history sketch

980
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,400
on but.
Marketing for me, my history of

981
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,960
marketing is not, it's not
naturally pleasant.

982
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,640
I find that and how can you say?
That it depends.

983
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,640
It depends on the subject matter
and that changes over time.

984
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,840
So I would say historically,
words like SEO strategies,

985
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,600
everybody's promising you the
earth and that in reality, and

986
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,680
the more you do it, the more you
understand it is people are

987
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:34,800
telling you what you want to
hear.

988
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,600
I like marketing that, as you
were saying, is more definable.

989
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,320
I don't I think your marketing
budget should be split depending

990
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,080
upon your business into that's
your that's your mechanism of

991
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,920
investing in something to create
income, to drive profit.

992
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,120
So having a relationship between
the money you invest and the

993
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,560
outcome is critical.
We.

994
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,600
We have.
In our business analysts, I have

995
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,440
a whole analytical team that sit
round a table everyday and they

996
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,600
analyse every pound we spend.
We spend millions, but every

997
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,000
pound we spend has a
predetermined expectation.

998
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,000
It then has an actual outcome
and a variance and everything's

999
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,400
tracked everyday and the
business is updated on those.

1000
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,480
And again, going back to the
green, amber, red, if you have a

1001
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:28,520
marketing agency that is able to
demonstrate to a business that

1002
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,960
if they hand you their money,
you can invest it for them and

1003
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,720
create profit, Yeah.
Well, then in the world I live

1004
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,400
proven, Yeah.
I would just keep giving money,

1005
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,640
yeah.
No, for sure, for sure.

1006
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,240
And it's funny you say that
analysts, because I come from an

1007
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:44,880
analytical background.
So I started in billing systems

1008
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,320
analysis and I used to implement
billing systems around the world

1009
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,520
and that's what I did.
And I lived in the data and it

1010
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,560
wasn't really for me because it
wasn't enough people.

1011
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,160
And I love the whole media.
Why am I doing a podcast?

1012
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,320
You know, I just am more of a
salesy person.

1013
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,720
And that was my strength, the
ability to communicate with

1014
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,720
developers and translate these
difficult concepts to these big

1015
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,240
telco bosses and go actually,
you know, you need this, but you

1016
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:10,760
need it in this way.
Otherwise that makes no sense.

1017
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,320
And by the way, you're losing
money here and, you know, on the

1018
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,520
switch and you know, it got
quite technical, but you would

1019
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,640
take these things and you'd
break them up and you'd market

1020
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,720
them.
You know, it's like marketing

1021
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:23,920
because you're presenting it in
the way that you know, they'll

1022
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,120
they'll get it.
And I.

1023
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,920
Think that's it when you're
speaking in the world of

1024
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,440
marketing, it goes back to, you
know, my desire to ask a million

1025
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,760
questions.
I've decided that understanding

1026
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,400
the analytics that sit behind
the money we spend and the

1027
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,480
marketing and the way marketing
works in different, it's become

1028
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,640
a critical source of growth.
So I've taken it upon myself to

1029
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,000
go and understand our industry.
But I think this is where small

1030
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,040
businesses go wrong.
I think that it's very easy to

1031
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,320
waste money in marketing and
it's actually not that difficult

1032
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,480
to track the success of
marketing.

1033
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,440
No, it's not difficult.
Yeah, it's not that.

1034
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:06,160
Difficult, but I think small
businesses don't focus on that

1035
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,840
area of the business from day
one.

1036
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,600
So what they'll find is they're
spending money on something

1037
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,520
defined as marketing.
They probably can't tell you how

1038
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:21,360
well that's done, and therefore
they don't know what to do next.

1039
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,760
Whereas I would argue that the
moment you invest money in

1040
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:30,760
marketing, as any business, you
need to map out what you're

1041
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,360
doing.
Why have you invested that

1042
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,560
money?
What's the metric you're going

1043
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,280
to use to quantify whether or
not it worked?

1044
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,720
Let's just say then, before you
even spend the money, assume it

1045
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:46,560
works.
If it works, what would you do

1046
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,240
next?
Is it something that you can

1047
00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:51,560
build upon or is there a ceiling
limit?

1048
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,040
Because I'd argue if there's a
ceiling limit, it probably isn't

1049
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,440
something, again, that's helpful
in the early stages where you're

1050
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,040
looking for growth, you're
looking for a way of investing

1051
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,120
money in marketing, a tracking
mechanism that you can either go

1052
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,640
in and research the best way to
track it.

1053
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,880
Mainly it'll be common sense or
maybe ask the person that's

1054
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,680
selling you the marketing.
How will we know if this works?

1055
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,800
Yeah, but if you can get that
element of your business right,

1056
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,840
how do I spend money on
generating a communication piece

1057
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,640
to a consumer to trigger an
output that creates a mechanism

1058
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,000
of income?
Your business is going to be

1059
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,040
amazing.
Yeah.

1060
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,360
I mean, literally, if you can
just crack that part, everything

1061
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,760
else will change.
What you sell, how you sell it,

1062
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,720
who you sell it to, the age
demographics of those people,

1063
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,920
where they live, which country
you sell it in river it's in the

1064
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,840
UK or America or Australia.
The baseline of understanding

1065
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,640
the money you're spending, what
you expect and how that will

1066
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,160
help you grow.
Sit down and understand that

1067
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,800
model and if it says you can't
prove that you can make money, I

1068
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,520
would question why.
If it feels like to make money

1069
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,440
you've got to fly to the moon,
it's probably not going to work.

1070
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,880
But if it feels fair and
reasonable that this investment

1071
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:10,440
could create a profit margin
that you can use to grow focus

1072
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:15,360
in that area and acknowledge at
the end of the spend and whether

1073
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,640
that's a day, a week or a month
did or it didn't.

1074
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,640
And what does that mean?
And now it did, what do I do

1075
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,080
with it?
And if it didn't, regardless of

1076
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,320
what the marketing companies
say, turn it red for it in the

1077
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,240
bin.
Don't get drawn into how to turn

1078
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,200
red into green because red is
unlikely to turn green.

1079
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,440
But you know.
Marketing people marketing in,

1080
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,160
especially in big companies, you
know, the marketing departments,

1081
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,400
when there's gigantic
department, you sort of come in

1082
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,320
there and then you read they can
be so rigid too and, and set in

1083
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,080
their ways and they like to just
go to the event thing twice and

1084
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,760
that's corporate.
I think that's more corporate.

1085
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,400
It's very.
Yeah, that's, that's a whole

1086
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,160
another word that there isn't
this elasticity and, and and and

1087
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,440
not even risk taking just a
little bit of creativity to go

1088
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,040
like it's just, you know, I
agree.

1089
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,000
It becomes really.
Taxing I Almost.

1090
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,280
Think that having marketing
budgets?

1091
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,960
Well, by definition a marketing
budget should not be.

1092
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,760
You can predetermine what you
think it will be, but it should

1093
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:16,800
be the one element of your
business that is willing to move

1094
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,680
have to move around as much as
it needs to based on what it

1095
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:20,800
sees.
Yes, based.

1096
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,200
On what it sees, yeah.
And I.

1097
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,680
Think that the difference
between perhaps being part of a

1098
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,200
corporate business, the desire
to understand the intricacies of

1099
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,120
how you've spent that money and
how that's played out is less so

1100
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,480
than in an SME where, you know,
we can't fail at this.

1101
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,800
We're probably not spending it
on our brand.

1102
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,880
We're probably spending it on
creating income.

1103
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,680
And failure would effectively
mean disaster because that's

1104
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,520
where the risk is mainly.
And again, you know, you can do

1105
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,880
it in big business.
We are now we've got a marketing

1106
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,680
department of going to say
around 30 people really.

1107
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,280
Yeah, it's a big part of the
business.

1108
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,920
And they we run that department
like an SME.

1109
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:05,640
Yeah.
So everything is everything.

1110
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,240
Every, every penny we spend is
like how I spent it 10 years

1111
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,480
ago.
The fact that we've grown, what

1112
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,720
I know about the mechanism we've
created is you can upscale it.

1113
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,560
I mean, I could do it if we were
10 times bigger.

1114
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:23,280
The the mechanism of tracking
through data so that if you sit

1115
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,760
in a room with a group of people
to discuss success or failure of

1116
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,680
a campaign, say it's not an
opinion because we don't do 4

1117
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,880
opinions.
It did or it didn't.

1118
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,760
It's either green or it's amber
or it's red.

1119
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,600
If it's red, we got burnt.
That's fine.

1120
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,760
That's part of our evolution.
Be honest.

1121
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,360
Be honest if it's green.
Can we grow it because that

1122
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,360
would be fantastic.
And if it's amber, can we adjust

1123
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,960
it, send it out again and see if
we can turn it green?

1124
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,400
But but we, we really do look,
we still work in that

1125
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:57,400
environment as a small business
because that's been a big

1126
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:03,600
benefit of ours to get us to
where we are is being wise and

1127
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,200
sensible and not getting drawn
into this world of fluff.

1128
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,240
Because it can get like that
where you just don't know where

1129
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,440
the money's gone, what it's
done, and you've got no concept

1130
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,600
whether or not you should do it
again.

1131
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,520
You've got to be able to track
the income back to the money

1132
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,880
that you've invested.
You've got to be able to do that

1133
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:24,400
and your.
Marketing people need to be

1134
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,360
talking to your sales people or
looking at those sales numbers

1135
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,320
just constantly.
It's just that that's what it

1136
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,240
is.
That's the that is, it's

1137
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,040
healthy.
And and some marketing

1138
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,160
individuals, some marketing
businesses don't like that.

1139
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,640
I think it's a really healthy
relationship.

1140
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:38,880
Why wouldn't they?
Like it?

1141
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:46,080
I think that I think marketing
can be perceived as a skill that

1142
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:50,040
sits independently of the rest
of the business rather than a

1143
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,480
component of the business that
equally is variable in the way

1144
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,160
it speaks.
So I can say this in this way or

1145
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,320
I can say this in this way.
Those two ways, those AB

1146
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,680
versions of the same thing have
different outcomes and therefore

1147
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,080
inevitably will create a
different return on investment.

1148
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,960
So they are incorporated.
But I think, I think again, in

1149
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,480
corporate business, people tend
to stay in their lane more.

1150
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,160
And as I say, the SME kind of
mentality is, yeah, but we're

1151
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,200
A-Team now.
We want to know everything about

1152
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:21,720
everything.
And it's great because knowledge

1153
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,560
is really powerful.
And that is so true.

1154
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,080
Yeah, I've.
Worked across I've had a taste

1155
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,400
of all the different ones and,
and, and also I know how big

1156
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,120
agencies work, big marketing
agency.

1157
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,680
I see how things work there and
I see, you know, the small

1158
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,840
agency and how corporate.
So it is totally different,

1159
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,400
totally different, totally
different atmosphere.

1160
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,960
But let's talk about another
important purchase.

1161
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,320
Is the employees, the resources,
the people that you work with.

1162
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:50,160
How do you know instinctively
who to go for, who not to go

1163
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,640
for?
Like, what is that thing?

1164
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,320
Yeah.
So I think that will change as

1165
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,200
growth occurs.
I think if you're, if you're

1166
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,200
trying to establish the new
business or you're maybe one or

1167
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,120
two years inch trading of of
your business in the early days,

1168
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:11,080
it's gut feeling.
The gut feeling is the most

1169
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:16,320
powerful tool you have.
And I always say to people where

1170
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,880
I lacked capabilities at school,
what it seemed to leave me with

1171
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,360
was an abundance of common
sense.

1172
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,280
Common sense to me seems to be
like a superpower.

1173
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:31,560
But I can clearly see that, you
know, something from a common

1174
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:33,760
sense perspective is obviously
positive.

1175
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,360
And even if somebody's saying
that it's not and the same is

1176
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,120
true of the reverse.
So, so it's that kind of common

1177
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:47,000
sense applied with gut feeling.
I always say generally if I've

1178
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,200
interviewed again, going back
over time, not really interested

1179
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,000
in CVS, I'll get some.
I was going to ask you what?

1180
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,000
Is it a good CD look like to
good CVS?

1181
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,320
You don't look at CVS, no SO.
Because I I find that they

1182
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,320
position the conversation too
specifically because you're

1183
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,240
you've already got a
predetermined conversation

1184
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,160
because they've said my name is
I love these hobbies.

1185
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:07,440
I do these things so you don't
sit.

1186
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,000
There like on The Apprentice and
like and then RIP a what?

1187
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:11,880
No.
So I'll have, I'll have

1188
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,360
somebody, there'll be a process
before me where somebody is

1189
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,280
ensuring that there is a
capability of the individual

1190
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,880
that gives them a place at the
table for me to speak to.

1191
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,680
So I'm then going to assume by
the time I speak to them that

1192
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,360
they could do this job doesn't
mean much.

1193
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,760
It doesn't mean that they're
right for us or we're right for

1194
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,000
them once.
So once I speak to them, I

1195
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:40,440
literally, it's just like this.
It would just be forget whatever

1196
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,360
you wrote on your CV because you
had to.

1197
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,680
You know, you're asked.
They're quite regimented, aren't

1198
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:47,880
they, CVS?
Who are you?

1199
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:53,000
What is it you want out of life?
And I will look to sell them the

1200
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,560
worst version of our business as
possible.

1201
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:02,720
I will try and put them off.
So my objective is I need to get

1202
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,520
rid of as many of these
individuals as possible through

1203
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,480
the process of recruitment to
save the cost, the time, the

1204
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,560
effort to me and that person
once we've triggered the the

1205
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:19,120
actual employment process.
So I will be very raw about who

1206
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,160
we are, what we do, what we
expect.

1207
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:26,520
There are many positives, but
there are expectations.

1208
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,800
Even something you know, just
using the word we spoke about

1209
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,320
earlier of being honest, like I
am non moving.

1210
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:37,280
If you show any dishonest
attributes we would just cut

1211
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:38,360
ties.
You'd say that in.

1212
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:39,840
The first meeting, yeah,
because.

1213
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,520
I think it's so important, but
not everybody is honest in life

1214
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,960
or in business.
So I need to make sure I've said

1215
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,000
it because it's going to mean a
lot to me.

1216
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,680
And therefore, if it turns out
that through an employment

1217
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,360
process you're not honest,
you'll understand why.

1218
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,680
There's no conversation to be
had from my perspective.

1219
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:00,720
Like you've literally broken the
trust.

1220
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,040
There's nothing to build on,
there's no foundation.

1221
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,640
But other than that, it would be
general conversation.

1222
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,400
I think you get a feel for
people.

1223
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,680
So could I work with this person
personality dependent upon role?

1224
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,440
Because that probably will shift
considerably depending upon role

1225
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,040
they're looking for.
What do they want out of life?

1226
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:25,280
How ambitious are they and where
in their life cycle are they as

1227
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,440
well?
So I think timing is important

1228
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,360
as well.
I think there's a right and a

1229
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:35,480
wrong time to moving to certain
parts of your career.

1230
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,720
And if you get that wrong, it
might be the right business, but

1231
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,960
the wrong time.
So it's trying to understand

1232
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,280
that, but but generally it's
about the person who am I, who

1233
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,360
are you and can I see you as
being part of our team?

1234
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,680
Would I enjoy spending time with
you?

1235
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,240
Would my team enjoy spending
time with you?

1236
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,720
Because I think if you are open
to being part of a team, to

1237
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:01,040
learning, I think that's kind of
what we're after.

1238
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,280
We want to mentor everybody we
employ so that we get all the

1239
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,520
skills they've got.
We want to suck that in.

1240
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,520
That's the reason we're taking
them on board, but we want to

1241
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,360
give back all the things we know
that quite possibly they

1242
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,120
wouldn't know, and those
collective things will give them

1243
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,240
their career, if that makes
sense it.

1244
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,840
Makes it easier for anyone
listening just, you know, yeah,

1245
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,960
get outside the CV and get that
conversation going.

1246
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:27,880
Work on your interpersonal
skills.

1247
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,320
You know, a lot of people
spending time on technology,

1248
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:33,080
especially the younger ones, and
you've got to practice the the

1249
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:34,680
conversation and because that's
what the.

1250
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,960
Reality be if you know, if you
go on and employ them, that

1251
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,800
format of an interview will
never happen again.

1252
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,120
You're not going to be SAT,
you're going to you're going to

1253
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,400
be working in a much more kind
of normal environment.

1254
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,840
And again, I try and do that.
It's quite difficult sometimes,

1255
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,440
but you know, there's no such
thing as wrong or right in

1256
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,480
anything you say and it's
difficult because this is

1257
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,400
artificial.
This interview, try your best to

1258
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,400
be you because you're going to
be you pretty quickly.

1259
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,080
If you come into the business
within a couple of months,

1260
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,200
you'll kind of take off the
shackles of expectations and

1261
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,600
your personality will appear and
try and give me that today

1262
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,400
because my concern would be that
you are right, but you don't

1263
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,960
know how to present that.
And the formal environment of a

1264
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:24,840
typical interview, I kind of I
think hides that personality,

1265
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:29,200
the human being that sits behind
it, that hides behind, I don't

1266
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,360
know, qualifications or things
like that.

1267
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:33,280
OK, OK.
We'll talk about something

1268
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:37,360
slightly different now.
Diary of Aceo style your day.

1269
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:39,800
I mean, what does your day look
like for productivity?

1270
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,360
Do you do like mind exercises?
Do you journal?

1271
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,200
Like, do you play golf?
Like what do you do so?

1272
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,240
Typically I love learning, so on
my journey into work, it's not

1273
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,840
that long.
Actually, I I could probably do

1274
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,280
if it being longer, it's about
20 minutes in a car, but OK

1275
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,160
podcast.
Podcast, What do you listen to?

1276
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,480
Lots of different.
So I would say Stephen Bartlett

1277
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,800
would be an example, but it
depends on the subject matter.

1278
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,040
I'm listening a lot to AI at the
moment.

1279
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,760
Yeah, but I'm, I'm learning.
I'm not really learning from it.

1280
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,880
I feel like I don't know any
more than I knew when I started

1281
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:19,440
the process maybe six months
ago.

1282
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,800
And everybody seems to have
their own version of what that

1283
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:22,920
is.
So I don't know.

1284
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,880
I like listening to people.
My favorite is kind of similar

1285
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,480
to this, you know, someone
talking about their journey of

1286
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,320
life, what they've done, how
they did it, what they found,

1287
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:34,840
learnings that have come from
it.

1288
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:37,040
And they'll be snippets.
And quite often what I'll do,

1289
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:42,000
I'll, I'll hear something and I
will screenshot it.

1290
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:46,120
I'll then go into the office and
I'll pull people in the room and

1291
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:47,960
I'll say, you just need to
listen to this.

1292
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,400
Like This Is Us.
We just are not very eloquent at

1293
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,800
the way we say it.
But when we talk about what we

1294
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,760
do and how we do it and why it's
special, this person just said

1295
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,280
it in a way that's amazing.
And I think we need to start

1296
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:04,360
kind of using this thing.
So I'll, I'll just maybe of a 2

1297
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:08,200
hour podcast, there may be
nothing that particularly lands

1298
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:13,120
as a, as something I'll hold
onto, or there may be something

1299
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:17,720
that is, I don't know, 60
seconds long, but it's massively

1300
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,080
inspiring even when it lands.
It lands, Yeah.

1301
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,640
And I'm like, that's.
Just that's super cool and I

1302
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,520
want to share it to everybody
that I think you're not going to

1303
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,279
have heard that it's
inspirational.

1304
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:29,920
You need to hear it or it might
even spot.

1305
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,240
Sometimes I've even bought books
and given them stuff where maybe

1306
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,080
somebody on a podcast, they've
written a book.

1307
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:36,840
I've heard them in conversation
on a podcast.

1308
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,880
I've bought my book.
And while I'm doing that, I'm

1309
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,479
thinking I could buy another
dozen, give them round to some

1310
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,200
of the staff because it's just.
You know.

1311
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,960
Inspirational.
So that's my journey in then as

1312
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:51,479
soon as I get into the office, I
do a kind of snapshot of what

1313
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,439
does today look like as a pre
planned expectation.

1314
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,160
And that will be a combination
of things depending upon the day

1315
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,880
of the week, the week of the
month, but it will be spending

1316
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:06,080
time with the senior team and
also with the strategic team.

1317
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,880
I've kind of siphoned off a
separate part of the

1318
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,720
organization that is allowed to
go and look at the future

1319
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,040
without having a tie to the
budget that we have today.

1320
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,600
So America would be one of
those.

1321
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:24,359
Now there's a team that have no
responsibilities in the business

1322
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:31,680
other than prepare for our
entrance into a new source

1323
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,960
market, understand the products
we're going to sell, why those

1324
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,240
are going to be the products.
So over time, but on a

1325
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,080
day-to-day basis, there's
nothing else you have to do.

1326
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:43,359
Or it might be something like do
it with the marketing team.

1327
01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:45,680
We've got our kind of BAU
marketeers.

1328
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,000
Then I've got a strategic team
where I'll come in and just say

1329
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,200
I saw this thing on TV yesterday
and I think it's amazing.

1330
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,399
I think we should do it.
There's one we're doing now

1331
01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:57,640
actually.
There's an app I found which

1332
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,400
creates songs and I am addicted
to it.

1333
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,360
I'm going to use it for customer
service.

1334
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,560
So.
You, you, you put in some kind

1335
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,280
of storylines, not that
complicated, maybe 6 or 7

1336
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,640
prompts.
The quality that it outputs is

1337
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,480
unbelievable.
So I, I fell upon this about a

1338
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:22,000
month ago, but it's a good, it's
a good example of how I spend my

1339
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,000
time in a way that I didn't
think I would be.

1340
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,000
So we're now going to be at the
end of the holidays.

1341
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,720
We have the holidays we sell
typically are groups of 50 or

1342
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,840
100 customers.
Our average age demographic is

1343
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,400
around 68 years old.
And we're going to get them

1344
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,280
together at the end of the
holiday and ask them to

1345
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:43,720
effectively give us the prompts.
So what was this holiday for you

1346
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:45,360
as a group of people?
What were the highlights?

1347
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,560
What did you see?
Are there any people that you

1348
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,240
met?
Anything that feels very

1349
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,160
memorable.
What emotions have you felt?

1350
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,000
Run all that down, put it into
this app.

1351
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,520
And then we when they arrive
home, there'll be a song for

1352
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,160
them, but the song will be their
song.

1353
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,440
That would only make sense to
them on their holiday with the

1354
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:06,080
people they went with.
To anybody else, it would make

1355
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:09,760
no sense because the memories
are specific and the emotions

1356
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,960
will be specific as well.
So there'll be some of my day,

1357
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,320
which is just, I've seen this
thing, I've got this idea, I've

1358
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,840
played with it, can we do it?
And now we can evolve it.

1359
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,920
Strategy.
But your day is structured, you

1360
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,280
know, you know what you're going
to do that day.

1361
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,960
You go in, you're learning,
you're picking up ideas.

1362
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,360
You've got your radar sets like
it's it's.

1363
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:30,480
Open to be completely emptied if
need be.

1364
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:36,520
So I have a an understanding of
how I should spend my day based

1365
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,480
on what I know.
But if, if I, if I discover

1366
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:43,880
something along the way and in
the travel industry that does

1367
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,480
happen, sometimes positive,
quite often negative.

1368
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:49,440
You know, there are events
around the world, for example,

1369
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,600
most recent would would be the
war in Ukraine where, yeah,

1370
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:57,720
cruise ships then redeploy.
We've got a whole a whole heap

1371
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,040
of things.
So we I react to reality rather

1372
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,640
than predetermined expectation
of how I spend my day.

1373
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:10,040
I try and think of myself as a
teacher and I want to spend as

1374
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:13,640
much of the day as possible
mentoring whoever within that

1375
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:17,480
day relative to what I'm trying
to achieve for a process of

1376
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,240
teaching and learning.
Rather than ticking a box called

1377
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:24,960
a meeting or a presentation.
It's a proper, how do I get this

1378
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:26,920
message across?
How do I make it memorable?

1379
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,800
How do I get it to lock into
them?

1380
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,640
So again, going back to what I
said earlier, we have an

1381
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:35,320
opportunity in this hour to give
you something that forever will

1382
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:37,680
benefit you.
How do I make that happen in

1383
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,440
this hour rather than we just
come in, do something, go out,

1384
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,480
then the next, then the next,
then the next.

1385
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:45,040
So I take that really seriously
because I love it.

1386
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:46,480
I enjoy that.
And how do you?

1387
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:51,960
Relax.
Family, So spend a lot of time

1388
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,600
with the family.
We travel a lot together, love

1389
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,080
holidays.
Things can get stressful.

1390
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:58,920
With business, it's not all
golden things.

1391
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,120
You're going to have moments
where it's hard, yeah, And you

1392
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,000
get stressed.
I think what you do when you get

1393
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,480
stressed so.
To unstressed.

1394
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:06,600
Things.
Yeah.

1395
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,240
So to de stress, I think it's
changed over the years.

1396
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:17,320
I think in the first, I don't
know, decade, even I, I didn't

1397
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:22,680
find a way of, I just felt
stress was inevitable.

1398
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,080
And I suck it up.
And then I think as time's gone

1399
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,320
on, I've realized that it's not
healthy to have stress and to

1400
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,960
hold that in.
And even it's not healthy to

1401
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,880
just find something to to do to,
to escape from it because the

1402
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,120
stress isn't going to disappear.
The thing that's happened has

1403
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:40,000
happened.
Yeah.

1404
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:40,800
It's.
Happened.

1405
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:42,880
It's almost.
Like, OK, let's unpack it.

1406
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,160
Let's who who do I need to bring
in the room?

1407
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:48,280
So what's the object?
Who are the people?

1408
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,920
Bring them in.
Let's unpack again.

1409
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,680
Going back to the honesty,
that's just what has happened.

1410
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,480
Why has it happened?
And then how do we work together

1411
01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:59,680
as a team to you're?
Regaining control, Yeah.

1412
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:00,960
Regaining control.
It's a.

1413
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:02,480
Loss of control?
Yeah, own it.

1414
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:05,560
Don't let it.
Just don't hide.

1415
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:06,440
Don't let it.
Control.

1416
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:10,720
You don't let it control.
You it almost certainly is

1417
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:12,800
repairable.
It's not going to be the end

1418
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:17,560
almost certainly of you, the
business, the week, the month or

1419
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,520
even the day or perhaps even the
hour.

1420
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:23,960
You probably are.
You've allowed it to to scare

1421
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,520
you.
Whereas I think when you own it

1422
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,480
and you unpack it and you
realize it, you'll be able to

1423
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:34,040
realize in most cases that you
just need a process of dealing

1424
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:38,520
with it and you need a group of
people that are best to execute

1425
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,040
that.
And once that's been executed,

1426
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,240
or once that decision's been
made and that delegation's

1427
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,480
happened, move on because it's
going to keep happening.

1428
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:47,760
And it's the same in your family
life.

1429
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:53,360
But no, I love, I love golf, I
love travel, I love spending

1430
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,920
time with the family.
I'm quite simplistic.

1431
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,560
I love TV still.
I love reality TV.

1432
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,240
Do you watch?
Traitors I watch.

1433
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,240
Traitors I watch.
I've got Paul Gordon coming

1434
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:06,760
here.
Yeah, at 2:00 and I did the pre

1435
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:10,000
podcast call with him and I
could just see his eyes, you

1436
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:13,520
know, he's it's just, it's such.
A genius program Genius.

1437
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,400
Program and there are a.
Number that come along and

1438
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,240
they're so rare, perhaps one
every, I'd say 3, three to five

1439
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,960
years you'll get something that
comes along that it almost

1440
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,320
sounds a bit bland when it's
presented to you.

1441
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,000
Yeah, you think that?
Won't be good, yeah, but it

1442
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:25,480
worked.
It's.

1443
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:27,240
Amazing.
So psychological.

1444
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:29,720
Yeah, very.
Psychological if you're in

1445
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:30,920
business.
An entrepreneur you're gonna,

1446
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,400
yeah, appreciate.
It and it's interesting because

1447
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:36,360
obviously as the viewer, you
know, you know more than the

1448
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:39,440
participants, which is the same
I guess with The Apprentice as

1449
01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:41,320
well.
But you also see the common

1450
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:43,800
downfalls of people you know.
For example, if you come in and

1451
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,480
you draw too much attention to
yourself and you, you know,

1452
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:48,520
you've got to play things a bit
more, you know, Yeah.

1453
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,320
It's phased approaches aren't
there like for the first couple

1454
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:52,720
of episodes.
Just lay low.

1455
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,360
It's the same as.
Apprentice, don't don't

1456
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,720
volunteer to be.
I never did, no.

1457
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:58,600
But yeah, it's it's an
interesting thing.

1458
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:03,720
Reality TVII you know, from this
I take a lot of from you the

1459
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:04,840
knowledge that you've imparted
here.

1460
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,240
And thank you for your time.
No, it's been really trouble.

1461
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,200
You're a.
Fantastic communicator.

1462
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,800
You're a very good salesperson.
I think a large of a success

1463
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,760
from what I, what I can see of
you is that you've got a way of

1464
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,920
transferring the company culture
that's in your head to others.

1465
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,080
You know the whole thing about
trust and about breaking things

1466
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:28,240
down into understandable,
controllable and common sense

1467
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,920
logical things to do and scaling
the, the, the, the traffic light

1468
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:34,440
system.
You've just worked it out.

1469
01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:38,560
You've taken something so
seemingly really, and it is

1470
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,160
complicated, but you've made it
digestible to anyone watching.

1471
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:43,560
You can get it.
I think that's your.

1472
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,280
Job as a business leader.
Business can if you let it.

1473
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:48,280
Business can be ridiculously
complicated.

1474
01:16:48,480 --> 01:16:50,000
Ridiculously.
And you've got.

1475
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:53,960
To realize that to most people,
that's not going to make any

1476
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,560
sense.
If you're trying to create an

1477
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,960
understanding of how
holistically you're going to

1478
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:02,680
take what you've got and grow
it, most people are not going to

1479
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,880
understand that language and
probably you won't even

1480
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:09,000
understand it yourself.
You've got to find a way of

1481
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:13,400
simplifying that story down and
getting people on the bus

1482
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,400
finitely.
You're not going to build this

1483
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,760
business.
You're going to need people to

1484
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,280
back you.
You're only going to need a

1485
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,560
team.
You're going to need finance.

1486
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,640
To back, man, you're going.
To need a whole heap of people

1487
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:30,840
to believe in you.
Your main job is to commit to be

1488
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:35,560
honest with yourself that you
believe like you truly believe,

1489
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:42,520
and then to simplify the detail
that sits behind why that belief

1490
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,840
exists and get everybody to on
board.

1491
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:47,920
And effectively they're backing
you.

1492
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:53,440
Because if you're wrong, it's
unlikely that they've got the

1493
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:57,080
ability to change direction,
especially in the early stages

1494
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:01,080
where you just don't have enough
experience and data to support

1495
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,360
what you feel.
You just, you know, you've done

1496
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:06,640
as much research as you can, but
reality is until you start, you

1497
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,840
know, you don't know anything.
But I think that's it.

1498
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:13,400
I think enjoy being a leader,
You know, I love building teams,

1499
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:15,280
I love mentoring people.
I love learning.

1500
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:20,280
You know, it's a two way St.
Be excitable, be quiet.

1501
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,920
I still consider myself today to
be a bit immature at times.

1502
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,800
You know, when we've achieved
certain things, I feel like a

1503
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,520
six year old and they won't
necessarily come in an order of

1504
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,520
the size of the prize.
There'll be where you know

1505
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,600
you've achieved something that
people doubted or you doubted

1506
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,400
yourself.
They were not easy, even though

1507
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:44,240
they may not add the biggest
benefit at a point in time, but

1508
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,880
you know that through that
exercise and that journey,

1509
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,280
you're allowing the business to
become something that lends

1510
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:58,240
itself to where you want to go.
And you know that if you look

1511
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,120
behind, everybody's waiting to
say we're next, what are we

1512
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,000
doing?
And they may think you're crazy.

1513
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,600
I know a lot of my staff over
the years, some of the ideas

1514
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:10,560
I've come up with, they just
don't understand why, what,

1515
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,680
where and how.
But then you look five years

1516
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:14,240
later and it all makes sense.
Yeah, there's a.

1517
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:18,480
Fine line between, yeah,
insanity and insanity, I'd say.

1518
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,960
And a lot of business people
would have to be crazy to do the

1519
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,640
things that they're doing and to
put themselves actually at such

1520
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:25,400
risk.
Yeah.

1521
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:27,280
And take these, these loans.
Yeah.

1522
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,200
And everything you know there is
the only scary side, I would

1523
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:33,800
say, of business than anyone
watching it is the whole like,

1524
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,800
like is your belief in yourself.
You can believe in yourself, but

1525
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,440
let's hope you're not blindly
believing in yourself.

1526
01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:43,680
And yeah, some people I.
Think get stubborn through maybe

1527
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,000
they've either invested time,
method or money and they feel

1528
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:51,040
there's no turning back.
And I think every one of those

1529
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:55,120
points, you've got to be true to
yourself because you're not only

1530
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,520
going to let yourself down and
you're going to judge yourself

1531
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,960
on the outcome, you're going to
let other people down.

1532
01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:01,080
But just be honest with
yourself.

1533
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:04,680
And not everything works.
Failure's OK, you know, And

1534
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,320
success is great, but it doesn't
exist at every corner.

1535
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,080
And just because you fail once
doesn't mean you can't go on and

1536
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:12,360
achieve.
And just because you've achieved

1537
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:15,160
once doesn't mean you're always
going to be successful.

1538
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,720
Everything's momentarily.
The main thing is learn back to

1539
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,080
the honesty.
Be honest with yourself.

1540
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:22,440
Be honest with the people around
you.

1541
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:28,440
And have a way of checking
constantly with what you expect

1542
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:29,920
to see.
And is that what you're seeing

1543
01:20:30,440 --> 01:20:32,440
with with?
Reality, because you mustn't

1544
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:34,520
lose touch with reality and that
does happen.

1545
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:37,760
You know, I've, I've seen that
I've been around business my

1546
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:41,200
whole life from a little kid and
watching my dad and his friends

1547
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,120
and you know, and my husband and
now myself, you know, but it is

1548
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:46,840
slightly.
You can't get put off when you

1549
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,360
see, you know, the, the negative
side of business and then you

1550
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:51,400
think, oh, but the, the highs
are so high and they're so

1551
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,760
wonderful.
So business is a, but it's also

1552
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,480
very interesting for me and I
know that our view is watching

1553
01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:58,800
who want to get into business or
even who want to advance in

1554
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,920
their role within a a company
and they want to do better.

1555
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,760
It's, it's always important to
hear from others that have had

1556
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:09,280
that success and, and look at
that success, Look at how that's

1557
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,920
worked and like you're saying,
replicate the things that work.

1558
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,120
And again the.
Traffic light system.

1559
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:17,680
You can apply every element
including yourself.

1560
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:21,080
You know, have I?
Have I spent my day adding

1561
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:22,800
value?
Have I been a green person

1562
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,280
today?
Have I kind of been there but

1563
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:27,800
not really done much, or have I
wasted the day?

1564
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:32,280
Am I going for every day of the
week, building up and adding

1565
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,960
value to me, myself, my career,
and to the business I'm working

1566
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,120
for?
And one of the other things I'd

1567
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:43,960
say is when when business owners
are looking to grow, growth will

1568
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:48,000
almost certainly include
evolving structure.

1569
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:54,000
And most of us like to bring on
board and elevate the people

1570
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:55,400
we're familiar with working
with.

1571
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:01,280
So rather than take on
recruitment externally, being

1572
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:03,760
able to mentor people and see
them grow internally is much

1573
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,240
more satisfying and finding
people that stand out

1574
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:08,760
internally, it's quite
difficult.

1575
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:13,280
So if you are a person who is,
who is achieving, don't be shy.

1576
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:19,040
You know, explain, showcase, you
know, maybe ask for time with

1577
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,080
your boss in a way that's just
about you, not about the

1578
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,880
business, not about them.
But don't be shy about wanting

1579
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,440
to go on wanting to achieve and
don't be shy about asking people

1580
01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:33,640
to challenge you more.
You know, the business can't

1581
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:35,320
help but being structured to a
degree.

1582
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:37,520
And if you've got a role within
a company, expect certain

1583
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,440
things, go and ask for more.
Bit like you would at school if

1584
01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:42,000
you were academic and have more
homework.

1585
01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:44,200
I do the same in business.
Is there anything else I can

1586
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:46,760
help with that sits outside of
what you expected me?

1587
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:51,360
That I can learn something and
you'll gain from it that that

1588
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:52,840
that those kind of
characteristics.

1589
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:55,600
They are, they're lovely to see
an individual.

1590
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,440
They don't happen enough, but
they're very memorable.

1591
01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:01,320
And you bank them.
And as you grow, you pull those

1592
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:03,720
people with you as I.
Was listening to you talk and

1593
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:05,680
this this is a question just
from myself and my own

1594
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,320
experience.
I spent a very long part of my

1595
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,880
career being a really, really
good employee, like really good,

1596
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:14,720
you know, I'll stay late and I
did what you said.

1597
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:16,000
I would go up.
So I've finished my work.

1598
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:17,200
What can I do?
Is anything else I can do?

1599
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:18,960
I've done it though, you know,
is anything, what can I do?

1600
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:20,720
What can do?
And I've, and I've watched

1601
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:22,280
people get fired around me and
I've watched Then I thought,

1602
01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:25,560
I'm, I'm a really good employee
because I will work like I will

1603
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:28,200
just still Kingdom come and I'm
going to do everything and to do

1604
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,920
that.
And, but then to transfer that

1605
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,640
mentality from being a really
good employee to now being a

1606
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:40,080
business owner and you have to
think about, you know, charging

1607
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,960
because I was also loyal to the,
to the clients and making sure

1608
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,720
absolute value.
But then to translate it to, but

1609
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:49,640
I now have to make this extra
money because I've got this

1610
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,280
agency and it's like the
mentality.

1611
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,720
It's OK managing people.
That's fine because you know, as

1612
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,160
an employee, you can do that.
You can manage teams and all

1613
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:01,480
that kind of thing, but what is
that mindset between being a

1614
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,440
manager of a, of a business and
being an employee?

1615
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:05,960
How does that, how do you see
that?

1616
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:07,160
I, well.
I.

1617
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:09,880
I think if the business is run
well, where I'm talking about

1618
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,800
people that are capable,
wanting, willing and, and

1619
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,720
everybody's different.
So when I, when I say we're

1620
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:20,640
looking for these
characteristics where, where

1621
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:25,720
business some businesses fail is
those people can be perceived as

1622
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,880
threats.
So it depends on the structure

1623
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:31,040
of the business.
If those people are managed by

1624
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:36,720
someone who would like to maybe
not let that work ethic

1625
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:41,880
participation known, then move
out of the business and go

1626
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,480
elsewhere.
You need your, you need to work

1627
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:49,200
in an environment where what you
do and your attitude to the

1628
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:53,320
business and your work ethic and
everything is celebrated, is

1629
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:59,080
acknowledged and opens doors.
I don't think every business is

1630
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:01,640
structured to give you that as
an opportunity.

1631
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:06,720
So it should be fairly easy to
see it shouldn't.

1632
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,960
Most businesses don't hide that,
you know, but I'd say a good

1633
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:15,640
business, any business is, is
going to struggle to find the

1634
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,760
majority of the staff having
that attribute.

1635
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:25,000
And therefore a good business
should see, acknowledge, embrace

1636
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:29,000
and evolve with that person.
And that may be an agreement

1637
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:31,800
that there's a moment in time
where we're doing something and

1638
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:34,520
we'd like to bring you in then.
So it might not be today, might

1639
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,240
be in six months or a year, but
we can acknowledge, we see it,

1640
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:42,920
acknowledge that we would like
that, that way of working to

1641
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:44,720
continue.
And we think it's a really good,

1642
01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:49,160
a good behaviour pattern.
And if we can in the future,

1643
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,720
we're going to embrace that and
bring you into opportunities

1644
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,280
that perhaps sit beyond what you
see today.

1645
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:56,160
And then it's like back to the
trust.

1646
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,400
Do you trust me to have your
back?

1647
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,440
Yeah.
To take you on that journey?

1648
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:04,640
Because I'm just being honest in
that at that moment in time.

1649
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:08,120
I'm being honest that I see it,
I hear it.

1650
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:11,800
And at the moment I can embrace
that.

1651
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,280
I will.
But today may not be the right

1652
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:15,920
day.
So if you don't see that today,

1653
01:26:16,440 --> 01:26:19,640
don't get down, keep it up
because it definitely will come

1654
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:21,840
and bear fruit.
That would be my way of doing

1655
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:23,240
that.
But as I say, businesses are

1656
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:28,680
different and management styles
are different.

1657
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:33,880
But I think entrepreneurial
companies understand the value

1658
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:38,320
in people because they probably
started off creating their first

1659
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:41,680
level of success just because
there were a small group of them

1660
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:45,120
in A room and working their
backsides off giving everything.

1661
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,280
And the value is obvious that
had we not done that, we

1662
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:52,800
wouldn't have, we wouldn't have
existed beyond that moment in

1663
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:54,640
time.
Whereas I say if you come into a

1664
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,080
business that's been around for
a while and you come into a

1665
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:00,240
department and you're on
management, it's just a moment

1666
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,640
in time within that organization
and you're probably not as close

1667
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:06,640
to the individuals within that
business.

1668
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:09,880
It's more structured.
Where I say even our Business

1669
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,640
Today, we speak to it, all the
staff all the time.

1670
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,360
We're very much still trying to
have that family attitude.

1671
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:20,920
It's the way in which we work.
And you know, anybody in my my

1672
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:24,720
office here in the UK, my
attitude is I'm an open book.

1673
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:27,120
If you want to ask a question,
whoever you are, whatever you

1674
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:31,640
do, we actually have like a new
starter structure as well where

1675
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,760
we bring all the new starters
over a period of say three

1676
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:38,480
months, regardless of seniority
and department together with the

1677
01:27:38,480 --> 01:27:40,320
senior team.
Because I think that's where

1678
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,520
sometimes there's a fear factor
of, well, I can't speak to you

1679
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:47,600
because.
And our only job in that one or

1680
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:51,080
two hours sat down having a
coffee and saying to me is to

1681
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:54,440
break the barrier down and just
to say, look, forget who we are.

1682
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:58,680
Forget what we what we look like
on paper, what our badge says.

1683
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,840
We're just human.
If you feel that there's a

1684
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:05,640
benefit in speaking to us, we
really would like you to speak

1685
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:07,200
to us as you go through your
career.

1686
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,520
We are not behind closed doors,
even though you might not see us

1687
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,520
constantly because we're in
meeting rooms More so, yeah, our

1688
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,720
our desire is to help you
understand you.

1689
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:20,880
And if there's anything you see
that you think is beneficial and

1690
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,440
you think I'm the most
appropriate person to speak to.

1691
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,480
Brilliant.
Love to hear it.

1692
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,440
So it's just, I mean, it's a
different way of working in

1693
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:33,000
business.
And I think it's like I said,

1694
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,080
it's, it stems from starting
from scratch.

1695
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:38,920
They're just natural
characteristics when you start

1696
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:42,160
from a blank sheet of paper,
like building trust in the

1697
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:46,360
people you work with is like
it's it has to happen because

1698
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,120
you just don't have a hundred of
these people.

1699
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:52,360
And if you can't get the backing
agreement, support mechanism of

1700
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,480
that small group, we don't have
a business like it's gone.

1701
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:58,680
So yeah, those are just lessons
you learn, I think that you

1702
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,080
carry forward.
It's been.

1703
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,400
Very educational.
That's what I can say for sure.

1704
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,920
I've definitely taken, you know,
when you say you listen to this

1705
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:08,920
podcast and you take things,
there's, there's, I'm, my mind

1706
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:13,600
is full of information and it
does make me look at myself as

1707
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,800
well in a, in a different way.
And, and to think where can I

1708
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:21,640
implement more structure and
just to stabilize things and,

1709
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,400
and that, that plan for growth
as well.

1710
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,920
Like what does that look like?
So I've definitely been inspired

1711
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,480
and I've taken loads and I know
that the listeners would have

1712
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:31,920
taken loads and I appreciate
your time.

1713
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:33,760
No.
It's, it's been fantastic

1714
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,520
business is fascinating if
anybody's listening and is, is

1715
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:39,920
considering, you know, providing
you take the right steps and

1716
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:41,640
understand what you're letting
yourself in for.

1717
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:43,640
It's the best thing in the
world.

1718
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:44,960
So.
And I'm really.

1719
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,640
Happy that Mark gave you as a
recommendation.

1720
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:49,400
Yeah, no.
It's been brilliant.

1721
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,080
Who do you think?
He's gonna be really, really

1722
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,720
good.
Yeah, that's been great.

1723
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:54,720
So.
Great.

1724
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:55,800
Thank you.
Loved it.

1725
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:56,840
Thank you so much.
Thanks so much.

1726
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:57,320
Yeah.