Inside the Mind of a Psychopath Who Chose to Change

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I've never interviewed A
psychopath before.

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I mean, obviously I don't feel
anything, I'm sure.

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How do you answer the allegation
that you are exploitative in the

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cult?
How many times were you 3?

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Times Does that put a man in a
coma?

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No.
Yeah, that was the main thing.

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Well, I've actually put, I've
actually put two people on a

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coma and I realised in that
moment that I, I was the

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problem.
In this episode, we step inside

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the mind of a psychopath who
chose to rewrite his history.

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Growing up, my dad was an
alcoholic and he would put me

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down a lot.
He'd call me a buffoon.

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He'd tell me I'd never amount to
anything.

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He would say I was stupid.
He'd say I was bad.

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From prison to 25,000,000.
Now the subject of Netflix the

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Psychopath Life Coach
documentary and a Penguin

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author.
Spotlighted by Forbes and Yahoo

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Finance as one of the world's
top 10 coaches.

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Meet Louis Raymond I've never
interviewed A psychopath before.

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Welcome.
Welcome to your own podcast.

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I did a story just before so I'm
trying to no it.

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It's something like for someone
to admit that they're a

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psychopath and then to build a
career as as successful as yours

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whilst telling everyone and on
Netflix having a literal

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documentary about yourself
admitting I'm a psychopath and

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then making money off it.
That is wild.

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How do you feel about it?
Do you feel do?

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You feel.
I mean, obviously I don't feel

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anything.
I'm sure we'll, yeah.

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I mean, we'll get into that, but
I just don't have a a visceral

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reaction, so.
Come on.

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It's, it's just as a thing, you
know, it's like asking a blind

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person why they can't see, you
know, it's I have cognitive

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emotions, so I could tell you
how I feel, but it's just the

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way I represent it.
So I could answer that question,

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but if we'd get get into that.
But if you see like a a little

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kitten or something getting
ridden over, do you not feel

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really, really sad?
Is is it that kind of feeling

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that you don't have, or is it a
different kind of feeling that

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you don't?
See, that's a little bit

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different because that's on,
it's on the spectrum and there's

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a threshold.
So the illusion of empathy and

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fear and things that people seem
to get consumed by on a

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day-to-day basis, I just don't
feel.

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It's just very baseline.
If something significant

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happens, If I was to see a cat
getting run over, I would.

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It's difficult because I'd have
to really be there to know

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exactly what I feel like because
it is kind of rare that I have

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those moments.
But I would be concerned about

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it, you know, and I would be.
Yeah, I would.

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I would care about it.
Yeah.

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I actually really like cats from
the earth.

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I actually have.
At one point I had five because

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in Bali we would see them on the
street, little ironically,

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little ones on, on the street
and I, I would take them home.

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So I do like cats.
But it's just, it's, there's a

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big difference between cognitive
understanding, empathy, feeling

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like I know that's sad and wrong
and bad, you know, and having a

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visceral reaction to it.
And if something significant

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happens, like a death or
something really tragic or

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something, you know, I will have
a feel.

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Yeah, but it, it will be less
and it will be, it'll be less.

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It'll be like a tiny little
flicker and it will go straight

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away after.
OK, you see, I mean, I love that

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you've said that you love cats.
That just shows you because I'm,

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I just love cats.
And it's just, I've got 3 cats

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that put in my bum.
Of course, even if you're

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psyched about the one that's
going to have you have feelings

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for, it's going to be a cat.
Yeah, let's be, let's be honest,

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OK.
But look, let's just go through

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some of your credentials here,
OK?

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And I have taken notes about
this because this is really

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outrageous.
So from prison.

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And also I've never met anyone
that's gone to prison that I

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know ever in my life.
So this is a, a first to

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25,000,000 empire.
You're a really good business

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person.
Thank you.

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That is so cool, Netflix.
I mean, you have a documentary

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about yourself.
We said that you're totally in

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the spotlight and there's more
documentaries on the way.

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There's things constantly
happening for you.

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I know that you had an event the
other day.

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You're totally on a big stage.
You've got people coming around

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doesn't even it's like literally
nothing for you.

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And then you've got this.
You want to rewire education

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because we'll, we'll talk about
this.

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You're very into education, but
in a different way.

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And then your business is about
coaching and you're very good at

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it.
So you've got you're pursuing

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APHD in education.
Well, it's interesting because

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you, you must have, you should
have updated your homework

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actually, because.
I wanted yeah, I know.

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OK, we'll talk about this.
We'll talk about this.

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Yeah.
There's a whole thing about the

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education and how you've taken a
a different part.

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We'll we'll, we'll pause that
one.

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But you've done so many
wonderful things and you've done

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it whilst with this label, OK.
And that's massive.

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So we're going to talk about
that.

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So the documentary about you is
called The Psychopath Life

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Coach, is that that's correct.
OK.

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Were you OK with that?
Did you question and go don't

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don't call this documentary that
or whose idea was the title?

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It wasn't the initial work in
title for it, but as as the sort

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of exploration of everything
unfolded, that became the

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central.
Thing that became thing.

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Yeah, because that was the
unique edge.

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And, you know, I was OK with it
because I I, I'm logic first.

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I'm not emotion first.
Most people would be like, I

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can't be called a sucker bear.
What was going to be and what

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are people going to think of?
Me, but I'm emotion.

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I haven't quite emotion.
Have you?

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But for me, it's logic 1st and I
understand marketing and I

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understand the, the idea of
sensationalism and being

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interesting.
And people aren't going to watch

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it if it wasn't called that, you
know, so, and it gives me a

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platform to educate and inspire.
And what it's called doesn't,

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doesn't bother me.
And I found it, yeah, I found it

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interesting.
It's something that I've I've,

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I've found quite enjoyable to to
talk about and be positioned as

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because it's, it's different,
it's unique.

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It is unique and people have
watched it and today I was at

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the hairdresser having my hair
done and the hairdresser, yeah,

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see, I've seen it's a
connection.

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You're going to interview she's.
Like, well, it because it this

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is what I didn't expect to be
honest with you, to get into the

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top 10.
So it was top.

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It was 7 in the charts in the
UK.

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This.
Is it's pretty huge.

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She was like, I can't believe
you interviewing him.

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I'm like, yes, I'm terrified.
She's like, Oh my God.

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You're going to be OK.
I'm like, I don't know.

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I don't know.
I said, what's the thing people

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get wrong about you?
They have this expectation.

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They what do you think they get
wrong about you?

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Because you're obviously aware.
You're very aware.

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I can see you sort of looking
and analysing and it's like, I

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know, I know you're aware.
So what do you think people get

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wrong about you?
I think if people take the time

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to actually learn about me, they
don't get much wrong because I'm

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so I'm brutally honest and
transparent to the point where

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people just can't really get
their head around how I would be

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so blase about the things that I
think and feel or don't feel or

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care about or don't.
My intentions and all sorts of

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things.
I think so when people actually

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understand and learn about me,
they get me right because I'm

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displaying exactly who I am.
It's the people that don't take

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the time to learn about me.
So they might see a snippet of a

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reel that's 30 seconds long and
it's me talking about putting a

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guy in a coma and not feeling
anything for it.

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And of course I get your evil
should be locked away for life.

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So those of course people don't
understand.

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They also don't understand
psychopathy or if we are going

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to get it into more detail.
Yeah, let's we'll get in more.

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Detail the actual clinical
diagnosis behind it, which is an

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antisocial personality disorder,
and this is just

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neurodivergence.
This is no different than

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someone that's got ADH or
dyslexia, really.

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Yes.
And you're a diverse I've got a

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diverse I.
Do know quite a few people that

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are openly they talk about that
and they on you're diverse and

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you can see that their brain
works in a different way and

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they get really excited about
things and they'll, you know,

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you'll talk about something and
they'll go into another subject

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really quickly and passionately.
You think, well, hang on, come

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back.
But but it's it's sort of in a

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child like very genuine what you
say.

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It's very direct, very honest,
very There isn't.

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There's something nice about
that.

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But there's also something
probably counter intuitively

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negative about it as well.
You know, it's like what?

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Well, people that can have low
ADHD can have low attention

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spans and they can find it very
difficult to concentrate or get

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things done.
They procrastinate a lot, they

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overwhelm themselves with too
many things.

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So there's so there's, there's
dark and light to everything.

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And I, I think it's just in more
recent years, we're becoming

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more open to the ways that
people work.

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It was only, you know, however
many years ago that, you know,

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the whole LGBTQ thing, you know,
that was not spoken about.

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And now it's like, of course,
huge in every aspect that

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possibly could be.
Now it's moving into now it's

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moving into the way that you
think as well.

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And, and I think different
layers of that will get

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unfolded, you know, for at first
it might be, oh, I think

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slightly differently.
And it's like, oh, that person's

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got a disability, Then if you've
got dyslexia, you're disabled

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now it's like, OK, they just
think a certain different way

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that's harnessed those skills.
And how can we benefit from

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that?
And what type of person is this?

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And then different layers get,
you know, unravelled.

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And I think something like
psychopathy, this has got the

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worst label attached to it.
That is going to be one of the

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last to be uncovered.
But I I'm seeing already an

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awareness around it.
Yeah.

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And there, there are more
features that I know about that

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are coming up that are going to
bring a lot of light to this.

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And more people are going to
come out of the woodworks for

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sure.
Interesting.

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OK, so you've shared a lot about
your life, prison, addiction,

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your diagnosis.
Does a part of you regret being

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so open or you totally
comfortable?

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Totally comfortable I I I.
Note question yourself sometimes

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at nights of wake I think.
The only one thing that's come

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up recently, because I recently
did another documentary that's

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going to be aired in Germany as
a whole, different feature of

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that, sort of similar in
Germany.

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And since the first documentary,
I've had a son and the questions

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that come up around him to do
with love and things are very

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sensitive because I'm very aware
of if one day he may watch that

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and what he would think about
that.

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Because I want to make sure that
he, you know, understands that

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correctly and he doesn't
perceive that in the wrong way.

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So that's probably the only
thing that I don't regret it,

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but that's the probably the
first time I felt uncomfortable

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with how my thoughts might be
perceived because I'm now aware

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that it's not just me.
Yeah, there's someone more

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important than you and their
life is impacted by by

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everything.
You've just.

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Yeah, it's communication, isn't
it?

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You've got to let them know,
like you say who you are and

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then the rest is noise.
Once they know you, they know

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you.
They're it doesn't.

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It doesn't.
But I I get it as a parent I I

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00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,040
totally.
Because imagine being asked, do

226
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,600
you love your son?
Oh, God, that's what they threw

227
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,120
at me, you know?
And the answer is yes, I do.

228
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,720
Yeah.
But I don't necessarily feel it

229
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,080
and it's different and it's
probably less.

230
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,360
That's the truth.
Because I can't just pick and

231
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,120
choose.
I can't just say I'll have that

232
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,080
emotion, but not that one.
And I just have a very flat

233
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,520
range and it's a knowing rather
than a feeling and it's shallow

234
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,280
and it's lower than than.
Well, I don't know, because

235
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,320
you've just exhibited more than
parents who don't consider

236
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,720
themselves having the
psychopathy and whatever that

237
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,920
you you are considering him
already.

238
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,040
You're thinking about, well,
when he's old, he's gonna watch

239
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,840
these things back.
Yeah, what I've said is gonna

240
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,360
impact him.
And a lot of parents don't.

241
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:46,520
Yeah.
You know, they don't care how

242
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,920
they speak to their kids and
whether that's gonna affect them

243
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,320
or not.
I mean, and they don't have any

244
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,480
diagnosis.
True.

245
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,520
They absolutely should.
And that and that's why it's a

246
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,280
spectrum.
You know, I'm not a full blown

247
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,760
psychopath that cares about
nothing and nobody other than

248
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,040
myself and would go out.
I want to create harm to

249
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,160
everybody I can.
You know, that's the just the

250
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:07,640
nought .1% that the population
have known from serial killer

251
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,560
documentaries.
You know, that's a very, very

252
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:15,920
small part of that spectrum.
I cognitively understand and

253
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,360
intellectualize and know what's
right and wrong and have values

254
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,960
and morals that I've learned
that I stand by.

255
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,520
Not because I get an
instinctual, gut, visceral

256
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,840
feeling that I have to do it,
but because I've learnt and I

257
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,400
know that that's what I want to
live my life by.

258
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,960
You made a conscious decision to
live like that.

259
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,680
OK, so in terms of those things
like you say this, you know,

260
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,360
this psychopath can go all the
way to the to the extreme and

261
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,160
they do some very, very bad
stuff.

262
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,600
What about for you?
What was that little the cut of

263
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,920
points, the rock bottom?
We thought, OK, you know

264
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,960
something, let's change this.
I don't like the way that it is

265
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,120
to now, and I'm making a
decision to change.

266
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:54,960
Yeah.
What was that?

267
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,520
I mean, I've never actually.
I mean, you might be surprised

268
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,160
to hear this.
I mean, considering, you know,

269
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,680
you've gone through.
Yeah.

270
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,760
So my back story is things like
I've had a suicide attempt.

271
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,520
I've.
I've broken my jaw.

272
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:06,960
My cheekbone.
No, sorry.

273
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:07,560
I've broken it.
Yeah.

274
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:08,720
My jaw, my cheekbone.
And.

275
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,480
How did you break your jaw?
Your cheekbone.

276
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,880
Just fights, you know?
Yeah.

277
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,640
Why are you fighting with
people?

278
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,120
On reflection, there's a few
things on it.

279
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,440
One, I crave significance
because I didn't feel loved by

280
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,920
my family.
I don't think that they

281
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,000
displayed it to me, but also
they're probably a part of.

282
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,240
I didn't know how to receive it
or feel it even if it was

283
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,680
present because they weren't
showing me they love me, but

284
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:36,960
there's probably still an
element so.

285
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,120
You didn't get hugs and like no
comes in on my lap.

286
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,720
I.
Might have got that, yeah, but I

287
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,400
didn't get the I love.
You the the really.

288
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,880
I love you and so.
Because it's there's there's

289
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,040
many parts of love, but one of
it's showing it and the other

290
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,520
one's feeling it.
So you could probably have a

291
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,480
parent who doesn't outwardly
display it so much, but you

292
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,520
still feel it because you.
Yeah, they they do things.

293
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:57,160
They or they or it's not even
there do things.

294
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,080
There's just probably this, I'm
just guessing that there's this

295
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,000
kind of radiation bond of love.
So for me, I didn't get that

296
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,000
because I didn't know how to,
didn't have it, didn't have that

297
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,720
connection, but also I wasn't
shown it.

298
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,280
So the closest thing that I
could A tribute to love in my

299
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,840
mind was significance that was
in my warped sense of reality

300
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,200
without even consciously really
knowing it to.

301
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,760
Whom?
Significance in any way, like I

302
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,200
used to like acting and singing
and dancing when I was younger

303
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,120
because I would be up on stage
and I'd be getting attention

304
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,520
then I started negatively
behaving and getting attention

305
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,680
that way.
So, you know, I was expelled

306
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,160
from school at 15 and I had.
Why did you get expelled?

307
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,320
What did you do?
Refusing to accept the authority

308
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,920
of staff because there's another
sort of symptom of the

309
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,440
antisocial personality disorder.
I don't see the hierarchy of of

310
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,160
authority.
It is completely baseline to me.

311
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,080
So it doesn't matter who you
are.

312
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,720
You know how important you are.
I just can't.

313
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,080
I don't get that.
I don't get that obvious or I

314
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,040
should, you know, listened or
behaved with this person.

315
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360
So I was just very rebellious
and eventually got me kicked

316
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:01,560
out.
Yeah.

317
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,320
I mean, I, I do, I sort of, I, I
definitely do respect authority

318
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,840
and like the headmaster walks in
and you know, and headmaster.

319
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,400
So you didn't?
To me, it's just another person.

320
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,440
Wow.
But in a way, you could also

321
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240
polarize that and say, but then
that's good because everyone

322
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,720
should be treated equally.
So it's like we can, it depends

323
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,560
how we look at things.
You know, you could be like, he

324
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:24,680
thinks he's better than
everybody else.

325
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,920
He doesn't respect people.
But it's not necessarily the

326
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,360
case.
It's just a case of I don't look

327
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:34,600
at it and say, society has told
me that this is a person that I

328
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,040
should listen to.
I see it as I'm going to make my

329
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:46,120
own decision up.
What about like police and stuff

330
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,800
like that and the law that's not
relevant?

331
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:54,560
No, I mean, I like the law.
I like that there's rules.

332
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,480
And because I, I think, you
know, my daughter's just gone in

333
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,200
to study politics and she's
asking me my political views and

334
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,120
whether I think, and we went to
see Alcatraz and stuff.

335
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,280
She's asking me about prison and
whether it's good and the rules

336
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,920
and should, how long should
people be in prison for and all

337
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,440
that sort of thing.
And everyone's got their views.

338
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,880
And like, my husband will say,
like, no, like, there should be

339
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,160
much more like reform in prison.
People shouldn't just be put in

340
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,040
prison.
Like, you should look at, you

341
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,600
know, why are they there and do
some other things.

342
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,560
Like prison doesn't work, you
know?

343
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,360
But then you think about, like,
really dangerous people, and

344
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,320
you're grateful that there's
prison because you think, well,

345
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,640
it's protecting, you know,
those.

346
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,880
And there shouldn't be some
authority, otherwise everyone's

347
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,960
going to do what they want.
What do you think about that?

348
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,480
We'll see.
I think that's where it gets

349
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,320
confusing for people because
it's not to say that I don't

350
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,240
think it's a good idea.
I think it's a good idea.

351
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,640
I know it's a good idea, but do
I have this immediate natural

352
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,560
response to follow it?
No.

353
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,120
No.
And I think it's, yeah, of

354
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,680
course.
I mean society would be a mess

355
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,640
without it.
You agree with that?

356
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,000
It would be right?
Yeah, of course.

357
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,560
Just let people do whatever they
want.

358
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,040
And I can logically respect the
police and, and I think they're

359
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,720
doing a good job.
And I don't have any, you know,

360
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,200
I don't wish they weren't there.
But for me, when I was growing

361
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,800
up, I just didn't have.
I had to learn that I shouldn't

362
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,920
break the rules.
I had to learn that it wasn't

363
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,680
natural.
I wouldn't actually.

364
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:18,720
Break authorities?
Yeah.

365
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480
I wouldn't actually break the
rules because I didn't have any

366
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,240
value for them naturally, and
then learned later on in life

367
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,720
how I can't keep doing this
because it's going to put me

368
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,840
back in prison.
Yeah, there was a rule that I

369
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,840
broke because I I went to
boarding school, OK?

370
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,200
And I was in a girls school and
there was a girls school and

371
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,560
there was a little gate and then
there was a boys school and you

372
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:43,160
were not allowed ever to step
your foot over to the boys side

373
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,800
of thing after 5:00 PM to the
boys side to school.

374
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:50,120
I thought that's a ridiculous
rule because there's no like

375
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,560
it's not, you live there, so
it's your home.

376
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,080
So you and the gates open and
sometimes you have a

377
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,280
conversation that you have to
finish.

378
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,600
You know, this is like, you
know, young loving things is

379
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,400
really important.
And I thought I did think in

380
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,320
your way, I'm going to break the
rule and stay after 5:00 PM

381
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,360
because I have to finish this
conversation.

382
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,720
There is no way I'm not having
this breakup conversation or

383
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,520
whatever it was.
So I did that.

384
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,160
And then because I knew that I
had broken the rules, I said to

385
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,760
the prefix, I've broken the
rules.

386
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,440
I've done deliberately.
You can punish me.

387
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,040
I can be grounded, you know,
whatever they they that you're

388
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,280
literally not allowed to see
anyone and do anything for like

389
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,240
three months or something
following something like serious

390
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,400
incident because it's like a
security breach, whatever you

391
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,720
want to call it.
But I said you guys can.

392
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,880
That's fine.
I'm happy to to go through the

393
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,120
punishment, but this was 100%.
It's not ridiculous.

394
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,320
I'm not doing I'm not doing
anything bad, bad.

395
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,520
You know, I'm only having a
conversation for you.

396
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:52,240
Like I told you, I've never met
anyone that went to prison

397
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,240
before.
But yeah, yeah.

398
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,800
I mean, you know, I think.
Yeah, it makes sense.

399
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,600
I mean, in that scenario you
looked at it as a ridiculous.

400
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:58,480
Rule.
It was a ridiculous.

401
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,360
Rule and it allowed you to see
past the illusion of this isn't

402
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,200
just something I should do, this
is something someone's telling

403
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,240
me to do, and your values were
more important than that rule,

404
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,400
therefore you broke.
It so is that your what you're

405
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,840
doing is what I'm trying to.
Get in that scenario, most

406
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,160
scenarios is yeah, well, I've
learnt now that I can't break

407
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,040
the law because that's bad and
that's going to get me into

408
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:22,280
trouble but before that kind of
rebellious nature of you saying

409
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,760
no, I I care about doing this
more than the rule that set upon

410
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480
me was pretty much my.
But I handed myself in.

411
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,200
Did you hand yourself in?
No.

412
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,160
OK.
Which brings us to prison.

413
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,120
Like what?
What is prison even like?

414
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,640
Well, I went to prison quite a
few times, so it wasn't just

415
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,840
once I went to prison.
How many times were?

416
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,680
You three times, the first time
when I was when I was 18.

417
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,080
Now that was a very different.
You're not.

418
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,880
You're going to be amazed by my
answer, but I'll tell you the

419
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,440
truth.
So I quite enjoyed it, which

420
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,800
people find really, really
enjoyed prison.

421
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,120
Yeah, I enjoyed both times, and
both for different reasons.

422
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,200
How did you enjoy prison?
Because it's very, there's an

423
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,800
element of chaos that I'm
attracted to.

424
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,600
And this actually brings me back
to the question you asked me

425
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,600
earlier about why did you, why
were you fighting?

426
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,280
And there's an element of I
wanted.

427
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,200
Significance and I felt that
through the power of of violence

428
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,400
and that I could get an element
of significance but also it was

429
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,080
now I realize a searching to
feel because with that

430
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,400
adrenaline and you know becomes
a sensation and the more that

431
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,760
was more of a physiological
reaction in my body, it was

432
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,840
still kind of something that's
why a lot of people with an anti

433
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,520
social personality disorder will
use drink and drugs because.

434
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,080
They're just trying to stimulate
themselves.

435
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,960
So I think that fighting was a
way of doing that, but also

436
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:47,960
chaos and sabotage also gave me
an element of feeling and

437
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,080
adrenaline and.
Yeah, I you've got a rise out of

438
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,480
you Like it?
Yeah, I've got a kick out of it,

439
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,040
Yeah.
It's my adrenaline and all the

440
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,320
hormones and it's affecting you
in in like psychologically,

441
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,200
physically, those chemicals or
you like that sort of feeling.

442
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,200
Wow.
And then in prison.

443
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,160
So you were getting that as
well, I mean.

444
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,680
Yeah, because it was just
extreme.

445
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,240
I like the idea of extreme.
Like I really don't like the

446
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,720
idea of normality and everyday
life.

447
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,320
But what's in prison?
That's extreme.

448
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,560
Sorry for Inter.
Because it's just, it's just

449
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,200
chaos.
It's just fight and it's just.

450
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,240
People fighting in there all the
time.

451
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,440
Well, the first one I went to
was young offenders.

452
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,440
So it's 18 to 21 years old.
And these, these people have no

453
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,120
idea of consequences.
They just want to, they want to

454
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:29,640
get worse crimes.
Actually, they're actually

455
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,560
trying to get more sentence
perfect.

456
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,960
The first thing they ask you is
what you're in for, because then

457
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,640
you get ranked by how bad your
crime was.

458
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,760
And my my belief system started
getting warped to the fact that

459
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,680
I was thinking I need to come
come back here another time for

460
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,760
a more serious crime.
Oh no.

461
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,800
But I just didn't hang.
It on with the wrong crowd.

462
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,920
Yeah, and I, I enjoyed that.
I mean, it's just like, for

463
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,400
example, a lot of people when
they're younger, they like going

464
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,160
out, getting drunk in the park
and, you know, well, maybe I I

465
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,600
did and smashing windows and
kind of I just liked all that

466
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:56,760
stuff.
You know, I enjoyed it.

467
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,840
I got a kick out of it and I did
it when I went to prison, but

468
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,000
that was a very different time.
And I went in again, young

469
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,480
offenders a little bit after
that.

470
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,920
But the next time I had a A.
Big Did you upgrade your

471
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,960
offence?
Yeah, yeah, I did.

472
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,040
Yeah.
So next time I went in for GBH.

473
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,120
What's that?
Grievous bodily harm.

474
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,120
So I put a man in a coma.
No.

475
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,840
Yeah, that was the main thing.
Well, I've actually put, I've

476
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,240
actually put two people in a
coma.

477
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,120
You didn't.
So I've done DBH before but I

478
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,320
didn't go to prison for it
because I was on trial for two

479
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,040
years.
You didn't mean to put them into

480
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:29,800
a coma.
You just.

481
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,440
It got probably went too far.
But you didn't mean to do that.

482
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,320
I didn't mean to.
That's intense.

483
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,680
Yeah.
Well, I didn't put the two

484
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:38,560
people in a coma.
Sorry.

485
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,400
I gave two people a brain
hemorrhage.

486
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,600
One of them went into a coma.
So you were really fighting

487
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,560
really badly and getting into.
Well, actually, I mean, I was,

488
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,720
yeah, I was.
Those particular scenarios

489
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,720
actually is more unlucky I
think.

490
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,480
This just got really serious.
Really.

491
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,440
It was like, oh, you went to
prison.

492
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,200
It's like I actually did that.
That this just, I mean, that's.

493
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,360
So this is where the
psychopathy, because it's

494
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,120
interesting, if you look at the
psychopathy checklist, most of

495
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,600
it is behavioral.
So most of it is the things that

496
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,600
you're doing, which is
interesting because now because

497
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,040
I've learnt to harness my
behaviour and I've developed my

498
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,640
mind and I've become more
cognitively aware, I've trained

499
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,760
myself, I've learned how to
access empathy on a more of a

500
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,080
brain level than a, than a body
level and all these things.

501
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,280
I don't necessarily display as
many of the checklist points as

502
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:34,720
I used to, but I still display
the ones that are more of a like

503
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,440
a biological response.
Like what?

504
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,560
Like what?
I don't feel empathy, I don't

505
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,920
feel fear.
I don't really feel any emotion

506
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,360
other than things that stimulate
me.

507
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,240
So that's why the significance,
the attention, the fame, the

508
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,320
success, those are the things
that kind of make me feel, yeah.

509
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,680
You've got your new thing in a
way.

510
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,800
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

511
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,360
And I don't mind admitting it.
Like most people are like, oh, I

512
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:01,920
don't want to be famous.
I don't want to be in the

513
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,560
spotlight.
Yeah, I was going to ask you

514
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,600
like, do you like how do you
feel about that?

515
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,680
I mean.
I mean, it gives me something.

516
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,000
I mean, I've got to find
something, right?

517
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,160
Because otherwise I do feel flat
and I do feel empty.

518
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,360
There is like a, there is a,
there is a numbness to me that

519
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,320
This is why people sometimes go
out there, get very depressed

520
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,480
and end up killing people
because they want to feel.

521
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,480
I can tell you that's probably
one of the main reasons they

522
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,480
don't.
And do you think a lot that

523
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,360
they're undiagnosed basically
they don't know a lot of them

524
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,240
must be because it what did it
take for you to get a diagnosis?

525
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,200
So I committed a load of very
violent crimes in a very short

526
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,720
period of time and I was going
to court and my probation

527
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,520
officer sent me for a pre
sentence report.

528
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,520
Sorry, the court sent me to
probation for a pre sentence

529
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:48,920
report.
And that's where they analyze

530
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,640
you and usually take into
consideration background

531
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,920
factors.
And then they recommend

532
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,160
sentencing for the judge.
It's not like how you sort of

533
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,040
see it on the TV where they make
their minds up on the day.

534
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,040
Like it's usually a bit of a
process.

535
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,400
Yeah, they went through all the
backgrounds.

536
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,600
And it's known to be in your
absolute best behaviour on this

537
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,480
pre sentence report because
you're supposed to be presenting

538
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,440
yourself well so that you get a
favourable sentence.

539
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,440
But I turned up there and I just
had my arms crossed and I was

540
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,800
like, Oh no, do you worse, you
know, And they're like, do you

541
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,440
not?
Because at this at the time I, I

542
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,960
was, I was actually on trial.
I shouldn't laugh, but just

543
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,440
because how extreme it is.
I was actually on trial for four

544
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,840
GBHS because me and my friend
had a fight with four guys and

545
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,200
and we just I blacked out drunk
and.

546
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,640
I'm just, you must be a terrible
person to go to a fight with I.

547
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,600
Was I was I used to because I
used to be.

548
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Terrible.
Like the psychopathic kind of.

549
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,920
My eyes would glaze over, I
couldn't see it.

550
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,000
I don't remember anything and I
just did.

551
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,880
People not see that in you and
go oh OK, I'm sorry and ran

552
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,680
away.
Did you today Mark?

553
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,440
Who would want to pick a fight
with you like.

554
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,480
Well, lots of people back then,
because they didn't, they didn't

555
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,600
know I was and I wouldn't win
all the time.

556
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,440
Most of them I would because I
wouldn't stop.

557
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,280
You didn't care though, did you?
No, I enjoyed it.

558
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,160
See, that's another thing I
enjoyed.

559
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,080
I quite liked the fighting.
It was like a self sabotage

560
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,600
release.
It was a release of anger,

561
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,120
adrenaline.
OK, but OK, OK, what what I find

562
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,080
uncomfortable right with this is
that surely you would know and

563
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,560
maybe you didn't know.
I don't know.

564
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,760
But surely like even even if you
are, I don't know about drugs,

565
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,880
but I say drunk and you're
fighting with someone.

566
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,400
Surely you would know that sort
of limit of how much you can

567
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,520
hurt them.
Or does that just go that you

568
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,840
would know if I, you know, do
something more that?

569
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,320
You guys think that I grew up
and my friends were that were

570
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,600
also violent and we we were
proud of it.

571
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,000
That's the truth.
Well, the whole group was proud

572
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,880
of everyone was proud.
Would they also psych up?

573
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,240
I mean, why are they proud?
Of us necessarily, but I mean,

574
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,240
it's a nature and nurture thing.
You can also, you can have

575
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,640
inherently have like a like a
desire for, I mean violence.

576
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,120
I guess it sounds quite extreme
to say that.

577
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,200
Or you can, you know, just learn
to be a lad.

578
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,760
I mean, there's this, it's not
part of where you've grown up,

579
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,200
right?
But I can tell you there's a big

580
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,560
part of the population that you
know, you go down the pub and

581
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,840
it's like you, you, you're
telling about the fight you had

582
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,360
done that last night and you get
more popularity and more girls

583
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:05,920
for the, for the better fight
you have.

584
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Can I understand that a bit?
But but there's, I think there's

585
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,720
a line between, you know,
fighting and then then fighting,

586
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,440
fighting there.
Is as a as a as a mature 35 year

587
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,600
old man that's educated himself
around right and wrong, but as a

588
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,120
18 year old lad that had no
parental guidance around what's

589
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,600
right and wrong and only a group
of friends that were doing that.

590
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,960
The group of friends aren't bad.
Like you're all, you're all

591
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,600
influencing each other, I mean.
I was probably one of the worst

592
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,640
but.
You were?

593
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,080
Yeah, you probably were.
I think I'd be careful who you

594
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,360
hang out with.
I'm a very good influence, by

595
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,240
the way.
You gotta be yeah, you have to

596
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,520
be very careful.
Like it's 100% that, you know, I

597
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,440
mean, and I was, you know, it
was a lot of, you know, few,

598
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,400
few, few people I know have been
killed.

599
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,480
You know, one of my friends got
stabbed and murdered with one

600
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,520
kitchen knife to the heart.
Come on, a few few people I know

601
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,320
I've got I've been killed by 1
punches.

602
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,520
It's just kind of, I don't know
if I don't know because I'm not

603
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,880
on the scene anymore.
I should imagine it's still

604
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,920
there, but there's just a big
community and belief and

605
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,640
societal group of people that
just for some reason get a bit

606
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,320
of a kick out of that.
I'm really good.

607
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,280
I'm not hanging out in that
crowd.

608
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,200
Me too much.
Anxiety.

609
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,600
And you too.
Now you're not, you know you're

610
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,160
not.
How much were drugs affecting

611
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,920
that messing with people's
minds?

612
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,000
I say I fuelled it, yeah.
So I would say that that I was a

613
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,680
part of it.
Alcohol definitely for me, I

614
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,480
could control myself when I was
sober, not all the time, but

615
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,880
most of the time.
But when?

616
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,520
When alcohol came into the
picture.

617
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,200
Is alcohol worse than drugs for
for fighting?

618
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,520
It depends who you are for.
For me it is, yeah.

619
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,200
Because if anything out cocaine,
which is what I used to take, it

620
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,920
did get me aggressive, but it
also kind of in a way sobered me

621
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,200
up and they didn't mellow me
yet, but it made me a bit more

622
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,640
insulin when I'm I'm explosive
on alcohol, like I just, I can

623
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,880
just take off with alcohol with
with, with, with cocaine, I can

624
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,480
be a bit more wide and but sort
of a little bit more to myself,

625
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,520
but.
Really.

626
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,000
I heard that cocaine was a
outgoing, like it made people

627
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,920
outgoing and more.
High.

628
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:16,600
Oh, it does.
It does.

629
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,240
But maybe with you it was a
different.

630
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,000
It did also make me confident
and you know, have a good time

631
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,600
and life and soul of the party.
But I kind of had my rationale

632
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,680
still there a little bit.
But then when you mix them both.

633
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,680
So what I would do is I would
drink alcohol, save myself up

634
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,920
with cocaine, alcohol, cocaine,
and then it gets to the point

635
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,280
where I was just gone.
So it's called actually Coco

636
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,680
ethylene.
It's a different chemical

637
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,000
compound when you mix alcohol
and and cocaine and it caused Co

638
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000
ethylene.
That's what it is terrible and

639
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,800
that is a is a very dangerous
combination.

640
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,640
So you can black out and you're
just high on coke, for example.

641
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,560
Then yeah, that's when I just
would do the craziest stuff and

642
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,120
not remember anything.
Oh, OK, you're not doing that

643
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,520
anymore.
No, no.

644
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,440
I'm.
Not taking this.

645
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,760
And I just want to sort of
explain that I'm not taking any

646
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,920
pride in that now, you know,
it's just I'm being truthfully

647
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,840
honest with where I was at the
time because I had no awareness

648
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,240
around that behavior and had no
idea of the consequences.

649
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,240
And because I didn't feel that
natural empathy or remorse,

650
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,680
whether it's because I was never
taught it, explained it,

651
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,440
displayed it, or never had the
ability to feel it.

652
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,560
I can tell you something
speaking to you that you've got

653
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,720
guts to say it all.
That's why I keep asking, Are

654
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,320
you sure you're OK to says?
And I know you've done a Netflix

655
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,240
documentary, but I'm also aware
that you're a human being.

656
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,200
You've got your family, you've
got people that you know care

657
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,000
about you.
You don't want to affect others

658
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,080
as well, even if you don't care
so much about yourself.

659
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,400
It's like I'm always
unconscious.

660
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,800
You know who I bring on and I I
don't want to do anything to

661
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,760
harm you.
You know, I don't want anything

662
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,280
bad to happen.
I don't want I I want people to

663
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,960
understand that it takes a lot
of guts to say this.

664
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,800
And I I know that you don't get
scared in that way.

665
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,200
Like a normal, like, well, not
normal.

666
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,920
I don't even know how to say non
psychopath.

667
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,720
What's a psychopathy?
Empathy.

668
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,440
Empathy.
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,200
Someone without that diagnosis
would react.

670
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,080
But it it does take guts.
And what I think, I think and

671
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,280
have a hunch that you're right
about is that many have this

672
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,800
undiagnosed diagnosis within
them.

673
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
The way that people behave, the
things you see, you know, the

674
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,680
also the crime stories that
happen and a lot of young people

675
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,600
and there will be these
cocktails of the drugs and and

676
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,560
these things happen.
And then you kind of think,

677
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,120
well, yeah, what you've probably
no one sat down with you and

678
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,840
actually looked into your brain
and had a little look and go,

679
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,280
are you all right?
Like it's.

680
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,400
Do you need some help here?
Yeah, it's huge.

681
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,160
I mean, it's it's a proven fact
that 1% of the population are

682
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,680
psychopaths, 1%.
So out of every 100 people, you

683
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,480
know, there's one that is
there's a diagnosed one that

684
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,560
most people never gonna go and
get diagnosed with.

685
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,240
They don't want that label
attached to them and they don't

686
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,400
understand themselves because
it's difficult to compare

687
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,200
yourself with other people.
It's, it's although I had this

688
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,880
diagnosis, it didn't really hit
home until much later on in my

689
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,000
life that I was actually on that
spectrum.

690
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,440
And it was mainly when I was
actually coaching other people

691
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,800
and listening to other people
and just realizing I'm just not

692
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,840
like these people.
That was when I thought, oh,

693
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,040
actually that that diagnosis
makes sense now because I

694
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400
thought they just like labeled
me with something because

695
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,320
because I've been bad, done
something wrong And they are,

696
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,360
they must be mentally ill in
this way because I've had

697
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,640
different diagnosis.
I've had bipolar as well and

698
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,600
emotionally unstable, which is
also borderline personality

699
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,320
disorder.
So I've had like multiple

700
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,960
diagnosis and I kind of just
think, how's this guy that's

701
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,440
spoken to me for an hour can
tell me about myself?

702
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,880
You just can't.
You just can't get your head

703
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,240
around the fact that I've done
all these things.

704
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,920
So you've just chalked it up to
this.

705
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,760
But then it was later on in life
I thought, oh, actually I've

706
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,080
changed my behavior, I've
changed my life, my identity,

707
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,240
but these things still remain.
And it was at that point where I

708
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,880
realized, OK, there probably is
some truth to it.

709
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,560
Well.
You can help a lot of people.

710
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,760
I mean that that's for sure
people that have gone through

711
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,200
really bad stuff.
You know, when when you've been

712
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,240
there, you've been to the
presidents as well.

713
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,240
You know what it's like, you
know what it's like to be in

714
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,960
court.
You know what it's like to hurt

715
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,880
other people.
And in fact, you know what it's

716
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,480
like then you can't speak to
them from that place.

717
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,680
You know, I've been in that dark
place.

718
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,960
So that brought you to coaching
and you are people won't know

719
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,800
this, but on our pre podcast
call that we had, you are such a

720
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,920
coach like you actually are like
naturally it just comes forward

721
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,880
and you started to coach me and
I was like I was like, OK, but

722
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,280
in a way it's like, hang on, I'm
interviewing you here.

723
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520
But you've got you do have this
sort of a naturally mentoring

724
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,120
thing about you.
You do.

725
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,920
Do you agree?
Yeah.

726
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,600
I mean, maybe it was like, like
I mentioned, I see everyone as

727
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,120
equal.
So you were probably thinking,

728
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,560
oh, he's coming on my podcast
show.

729
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,800
Yeah.
But I was thinking you could do

730
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:50,800
some help.
Yeah, Yeah.

731
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,040
Like, well, this is what you
like on.

732
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,680
Hang on.
No, but it's like a natural

733
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,680
mentoring thing where you want
to, you want to help someone and

734
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,160
you went like, OK, look.
And it's very direct.

735
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360
I'm not used to it.
Yeah, I'm not done, but it's

736
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,520
also.
Well, that's my approach and

737
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,239
that's why being able to come
become, you know, very

738
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,520
successful in what I do, because
it's a very different angle.

739
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,800
Because when you're if you're a
lot of people are worried about

740
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,639
what they're going to say, how
it's going to become, how it's

741
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,800
going to come across, how that
person's going to react.

742
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,440
They're skating around subjects
because they know that it's

743
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,320
going to be uncomfortable for
the person to hear.

744
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:29,560
And with me, I don't get that.
So I just cut through it and

745
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,840
just.
How do you live your life?

746
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,000
So.
So you like your coaching

747
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,480
business?
You enjoy it?

748
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,600
Yeah.
To be honest, I don't.

749
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,639
I do less coaching now because
obviously I've become ACEO.

750
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,000
That was never the plan.
When I started out.

751
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,120
I was helping people for free in
Costa Coffee, just trying to

752
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,000
help.
You are?

753
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:49,520
Yeah, because I came out of
rehab.

754
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,520
So the story was I went to jail.
You know, we've missed the kind

755
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,120
of rock bottom bit.
Anyway, yeah, yeah, we'll go.

756
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,560
Let's Yeah, OK, let's no
continue and then we'll go back

757
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,480
to.
So I went to, I went to prison.

758
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,560
I mean, I'll explain that.
So I didn't have a rock bottom

759
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,440
moment.
That's the truth.

760
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,960
That's what I'm saying.
You're going to be surprised.

761
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,800
That you were saying that.
You were saying I didn't.

762
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,560
I didn't.
I still didn't really see that

763
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,280
much from a problem with it.
That's the problem, you know,

764
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:14,640
That is the problem.
I didn't see the problem.

765
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,920
You know, if anything, I used to
look, I remember that I was

766
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,840
sitting in a prison bus in this
tiny little cubicle in the

767
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,000
prison bus is going to jail
handcuffed and just looking at

768
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,040
people walking to work and
going.

769
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,280
I'm glad I'm not you because I,
I thought that I was at least

770
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,320
living my life in some capacity
compared to these people that

771
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,920
would just live in this mundane
like that's that.

772
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,160
Well, it didn't scare me, but
that was what I wanted to avoid.

773
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,320
That's what I didn't like the
idea of because that.

774
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,960
Going to work that much yeah,
because it.

775
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,600
Would mimic that kind of
baseline flatness that I knew

776
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,880
that I didn't want.
So yeah, I didn't see a problem

777
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,400
with what I was doing because my
belief system was so warped that

778
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,600
I tell there's an element of
pride even going to prison.

779
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,600
I was like, Oh yeah, people are
going to know and talk about me.

780
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,600
Lewis has gone to prison.
I kind of like that.

781
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,480
It's weird.
I and I look back at it now, I

782
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,000
have a complete different belief
system where I don't think that

783
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,720
way before.
But at the time, I remember, you

784
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:11,000
know, not really almost being
quite excited to go back and be

785
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,760
like, oh, I'm going to jail for
a couple of years this time.

786
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,640
And, you know, cool, I'm going
to tell everyone I was there for

787
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,920
GBH this time.
And new chapter, you know,

788
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,680
that's that's how I saw it.
But there was a moment where I

789
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,200
had my realizations.
It wasn't from a rock bottom.

790
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,960
You know, I would have liked.
I would like to say it came from

791
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,000
hurting this guy.
The truth is I hit him.

792
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,680
He hit his ground on the floor.
He hit his head on the ground

793
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,400
and he was in a coma for three
days.

794
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,520
And yeah, I would like to say
that that was the to my rock

795
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,720
bottom, but it just wouldn't be
the truth.

796
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,960
You know, I didn't see that as
my rock bottom.

797
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,080
I didn't feel.
I didn't to me, I didn't know

798
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,000
him.
I didn't I didn't have any

799
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,800
ability to understand or
empathize with him.

800
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,520
I kind of felt wrapped like just
in my actions, to be honest,

801
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,720
because he shouted at me in a
taxi coup.

802
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,120
So my response was, if I'm being
honest, probably deserved it.

803
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:13,800
That's how how brutal I was.
And the thing I regretted the

804
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,600
most was the fact that I got
caught because I was right in

805
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,120
front of a camera.
So I just looked up at the

806
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,320
camera and I saw it.
And then I just thought, OK, I'm

807
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,760
going to prison because I
thought I'd killed him at the

808
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,640
time because he went face down
and he went face down and he was

809
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:27,920
passed out and his face on the
ground.

810
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,560
And then this big slow, dark
trickle of blood come out of his

811
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,280
head.
And I thought, OK, I'm going to

812
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,640
go to jail.
So I have to wait and put my

813
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,120
hands up and put my coat over
him.

814
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,520
You didn't think that's a life,
that someone's partner,

815
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,040
someone's I mean, how old was
the man?

816
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,280
He he was actually.
So this is something that sounds

817
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,680
even worse.
I was 25 at the time and I

818
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,080
didn't know, but he was 40,
which now we know that isn't

819
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,480
actually that old.
But at the time when I heard

820
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,360
that, I was thinking, wow, he's
significantly older for like

821
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,360
I've hit an old man.
Like I didn't know at the time

822
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,320
if I'm too, if I'm see, this is
what I don't want to do.

823
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,680
I don't want to minimize or
justify my actions, but I do

824
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,600
want to explain the rationale.
So one of the things that did

825
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,880
happen that night, which was
unusual to other nights, is I

826
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,280
was very triggered.
So my dad used to call me

827
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,560
buffoon, tell me it never amount
to anything He would hit me.

828
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,000
And that's been a big factor in
kind of this anger that I have

829
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,120
and this violence.
I think there's this nature and

830
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,680
nurture debate.
Are you born a psychopath?

831
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,480
Do you create a psychopath?
And the argument usually falls

832
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,960
in between these.
It's got a bit of both.

833
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,640
It's like you have this
predisposition to it and then

834
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,200
through your environment, you
can, it can be exaggerated or it

835
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,600
can be brought out.
It's.

836
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:41,880
Correct.
What you're saying there's a

837
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,280
predisposition, but that doesn't
mean it's predetermined.

838
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,880
And therefore, because you're
predisposed and if you have been

839
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,640
in these situations and done
that, you can reverse it as well

840
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,600
if you're determined to do so,
which?

841
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,640
Or manage it I.
Mean have you reached out to to

842
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,240
the men to apologize or you're?
Able to, yeah.

843
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,320
I mean, I tried to do
restorative justice and things,

844
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,680
but he didn't, he didn't want to
participate in that and.

845
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,440
But you tried it good.
Yeah, and there's a lot of

846
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,880
cognitive.
I understand that's wrong.

847
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,800
And yeah, I wish that never had
happened to him, but at the time

848
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,920
I just didn't know what that
felt like.

849
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,760
OK, so how do you so you, you
apologized to him and you wanted

850
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,080
to rehabilitate yourself.
So what was that like?

851
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,920
What what steps did you take?
Well, to be honest, to work on

852
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,840
yourself, like I said, that
wasn't the turning point for me.

853
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,840
So that just happened.
My, my immediate reaction was

854
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,240
more, OK, I'm going to jail.
So I went to so I went, I got

855
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,640
sentenced to prison for I would
have got three years, but they

856
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,680
gave me 18 months for pleading
guilty at the scene.

857
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:44,080
And then I, it was when I went
to prison, I rang up my friends

858
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,920
and I was kind of saying, what
are people saying about me?

859
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:51,120
And then I was on the paper,
violent and boorish paralytic

860
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,440
man tax in Taxi Q and all this
sort of stuff.

861
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,920
And I was like, OK, cool,
whatever.

862
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,120
And then and then they said,
I'll be your friend as posted a

863
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,320
picture of you the day you were
sentenced.

864
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,040
And there's a picture out of me
outside the courtroom.

865
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,720
And then there was a picture of
me outside the exact same

866
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,240
courtroom 7 years before when
I'd been to jail another time.

867
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,760
And but he'd written up at the,
at the top, nothing changes as

868
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,200
the caption.
And it's strange because loads

869
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,400
of people had told me things in
the past and I kind of brushed

870
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,320
it off because again, I was
like, I'm not listening to them

871
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,720
because it came from my friend.
I was kind of, it just hit me

872
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,840
and I was like, what?
What does he mean?

873
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,000
Because he was just as bad as
me.

874
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,840
But he because because he said
that I kind of listened because

875
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,680
it was my friend.
And I thought, what does he mean

876
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,600
when nothing changes?
And then I kind of actually just

877
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,880
realized I actually seven years
before, I'm in the same prison,

878
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,560
like, well, the same courtroom,
different prison, but I'm in

879
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,400
back in a cell.
And I realized that if nothing,

880
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,480
there's a saying that I've
picked up since if nothing

881
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,880
changes, nothing changes.
And I did realize that I was

882
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,200
doing the same things as another
saying, but I've, I've picked up

883
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,520
some vocabulary to explain these
situations.

884
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,920
But if you keep doing the same
things over and over again,

885
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,800
you're going to get the same
result.

886
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,880
And that's the definition of
insanity.

887
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,360
And I realized, yeah, that I
couldn't keep doing it.

888
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,760
So it was more of a selfish, I
don't want to go back to prison.

889
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:13,960
Well, yeah, you'd be there
again.

890
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,040
Yeah.
So you didn't.

891
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,200
So then, ha ha.
You realize actually I, I do

892
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,240
want to be the guy that's on the
outside and not the guy that's

893
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,840
in the car going to prison.
Yeah.

894
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,680
All the time, yeah.
Because I was a bit older now

895
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,000
and, you know, yeah, I was I I
kind of got the realization that

896
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,840
this isn't what I want to do for
the rest of my life.

897
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:31,920
So.
But it wasn't the full

898
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,040
realization.
So that was the the penny drop.

899
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,040
Oh, OK.
And then my story sounds like

900
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,040
something you would write in a
very fictional book.

901
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,320
But I went back to my cell and I
looked in in the mirror and we

902
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,880
don't have mirrors.
We just have these scratched off

903
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,000
pieces of metal.
You can barely even see

904
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,320
yourself.
It's just these mirrors can be

905
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:55,680
used as like blades or whatever.
So I just about caught my

906
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,600
reflection and as cheesy as it
sounds, I kind of saw myself for

907
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:00,840
the first time.
I was like.

908
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,520
And I realized in that moment
that I, how was the problem

909
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,760
because I, I, I didn't see
myself as the problem and I

910
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,160
didn't even see there being a
problem what I was doing really.

911
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,960
But I realized, OK, nothing's
changed.

912
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,400
So I do need to do something
different.

913
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,800
And why does this keep
happening?

914
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,520
How, how come I keep on ending
up back in jail?

915
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,360
And I realized that I was
refusing to accept

916
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,560
responsibility for myself and
blaming everything and everyone

917
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,120
around me and being like, oh,
just the way things are.

918
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,640
No one must tell me.
It's always going to be like

919
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,080
this using that, that story.
But I realized, no, I'm the

920
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,120
problem.
I'm also the solution.

921
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:38,520
And in that moment, I kind of
got this exaggerated idea of

922
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:39,840
what change in my life could be
like.

923
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,320
So I thought I could change my
name, I could move country, I

924
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,800
could be this different.
I could reinvent myself and, and

925
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,120
I kind of like the idea of the
other extreme because I I was

926
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,680
addicted to extremities.
I hated the idea of normality,

927
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,320
but I was taking the easy route
of crime and chaos.

928
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,960
But I read it.
Oh, I could also go for this

929
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,040
other end, which is a really
like amazing life.

930
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,800
Painted to me.
What is this other end?

931
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,000
What does it look like?
Well, at that time, I was

932
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,120
thinking kind of still a little
bit warped.

933
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,040
So I was kind of thinking more,
I could change my name and I

934
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,120
could pretend I came from a
different background and I could

935
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,760
just, you know, make up this
story of who I was and just

936
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,280
start all over.
And it was kind of like a bit of

937
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,720
a dream, like a fantasy of all
this, you know, And then it

938
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:25,120
started.
But then at the moment I

939
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,520
realized that I could change and
I wanted to change and my whole

940
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,800
viewpoint changed to the point
where everything that I saw was

941
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,360
different.
So we talked a lot about in the

942
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,880
coaching training when we have
these filters in our brain that

943
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,880
delete, distort and generalize
information.

944
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,480
So before I was like, I don't
want anyone's help.

945
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,680
There's no one wants to help me.
I'm happy what I'm doing.

946
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,440
I'm not the problem.
And I was just seeing specific

947
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,160
things that reinforced that
message.

948
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,200
But the moment I decided I
wanted to change, I was like,

949
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,840
oh, there's and English
programs, I could do that.

950
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,520
Oh, this rehabilitation program,
I could sign up for that.

951
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,400
Or we could go to the gym.
And they're just everywhere.

952
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,600
Just support everywhere.
All these resources.

953
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,000
There the time.
We opened up.

954
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,440
Yeah, and I just started doing.
It my God, it's like you've had

955
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,840
to discover the world again.
And then it's almost like the

956
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,520
computer games.
You know you play computer games

957
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,440
before where like another world
opens up to you.

958
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,320
And well, actually I haven't
played computer games, but I

959
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,600
know what you mean.
Yeah, you kind of go around and

960
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,760
you'll have like, depending on
the level you'll have, you'll

961
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,320
operate in one world and then
you can go to another level and

962
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,560
then it's a completely different
and it's like you have

963
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,040
reinvented yourself.
But that's, yeah, it's almost

964
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,280
like you had to take yourself
maybe because of your

965
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,600
upbringing, because I can't even
imagine what it's like not to

966
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,320
feel loved, you know, by your
parents.

967
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,760
So that's living awful.
And for someone to say.

968
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,440
Like a little person like that.
Those realizations that I had,

969
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,720
it took me 25 years to have
them, but usually you'd have a

970
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,280
parent telling you every.
Week that's I think rubbish

971
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,320
parents are just so bad for
society like when they don't

972
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,880
know but then again as well like
thank God that you came to that

973
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,720
realization because although you
had a rubbish childhood, that

974
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,680
doesn't mean you've got to have
a rubbish adulthood.

975
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,280
You know, and you can definitely
turn around and you have.

976
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,160
Well, yeah, I mean, yeah,
everything was stacked against

977
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,120
me in terms of the ability.
To change because.

978
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,880
Psychopathy, which isn't, you
know, like we'll go into it,

979
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,160
isn't a diagnose.
It's not in the DSM, the

980
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,760
diagnostic manual.
You can't actually be a diagnose

981
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,840
psychopath.
It's a label that people put on

982
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,800
the extreme end of the spectrum
of people that have an

983
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,520
antisocial personality disorder.
And that's what I was diagnosed

984
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:26,480
with.
So when I went for that pre

985
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,680
sentence report, they'd give me
a psychiatric assessment and

986
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:33,960
they'd diagnose me with that.
I didn't think much of it, but

987
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,000
yeah, later on in life I
realize.

988
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,240
All.
And it's significant and it

989
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,280
affects your, your behaviour.
Yeah.

990
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,560
It affects the way that you
rationalize everything, you

991
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,920
know, everything.
But what I was going to say is

992
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,320
that is actually uncurable.
So there's no cure for it.

993
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,200
It's you can only learn to
manage it.

994
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,280
Even the personality disorder,
not even psychopathy, the

995
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,040
personality disorder, there is
no no proven cure whatsoever.

996
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,240
There's no tablet you can take.
There's no tablet, there's no

997
00:45:57,240 --> 00:45:59,600
therapy, there's no nothing.
I mean, I'm proof that you can

998
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,360
manage it and you can very much
use it to your advantage, but

999
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,600
there's but there's nothing so
far that says that you can just

1000
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,280
reverse it.
Let's just be completely frank

1001
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,680
here.
So out of all the people

1002
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,240
watching, OK, then when I'm
going to post this, people are

1003
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,280
going to watch guaranteed
there's going to be people with

1004
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,120
serious like they're going to
have personality problems.

1005
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,200
They're going to be awkward,
weird, maybe not empathetic,

1006
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,120
maybe they're horrible, maybe
they overly shy.

1007
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,400
They are 100.
No one watching is going to have

1008
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,080
this perfect personality.
So everyone watching 100% will

1009
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,240
benefit from the fact that
you've been honest about it said

1010
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,560
I have this thing in my
personality, I recognize it as a

1011
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:45,440
actual problem and I'm going to
actually do something about it.

1012
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,360
That is power.
Like that's genuinely something

1013
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,920
everyone can take.
And the reason I've got you on

1014
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,640
you've, you have transformed
your life.

1015
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,720
You have done horrible things
and you know that you

1016
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,360
unfortunately, you're going to
have to live with that and you

1017
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,000
want to be better.
You have apologized, you want to

1018
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,960
improve your life.
And you've since then taken it.

1019
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,560
You've built a business, which
is a blaming hard thing to do

1020
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,920
for anyone like, and you've
taken it to really good levels.

1021
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,640
Like you're doing very, very
well and you've got the Netflix

1022
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,920
documentary.
So how do you think that your

1023
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,520
personality is?
And, and you know, the, the, the

1024
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:28,200
personality disorder has
actually helped you to build.

1025
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,360
A successful business, if I was
to summarize it in a really

1026
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,680
cheesy, cliche way, it's just
focusing on what you do have

1027
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,640
rather than what you don't.
And because, for example, if a,

1028
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,000
a deaf, a deaf person can
probably see better and someone

1029
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,840
that's blind can hear better,
you adapt, you evolve and you

1030
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,360
compensate.
So because I'm less emotionally

1031
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,640
reactive, I become more
cognitively aware.

1032
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,720
So I feel like I have an
advantage strategically because

1033
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,640
my brain has had to evolve and
adapt to be able to navigate.

1034
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,040
So there's I see everything like
a map, like a visual

1035
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,480
representation.
Give me some examples.

1036
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,320
So like you, you, you, you want
to get a client?

1037
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:14,680
Yeah.
What's going through your?

1038
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,880
Head So I, I will see like
client and then I'll see every

1039
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,400
step from where I am now or
where I was or whoever it is.

1040
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,720
And it can be anyone.
And I and I'll gather

1041
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:26,720
information and it will just
come in, come into a map and

1042
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:29,720
I'll see every step of exactly
how to do it.

1043
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,560
And I can see it right there in
front of me and I can move the

1044
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,120
bits around and I get extra
information.

1045
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,960
All fits into the puzzle and
then but The thing is there are

1046
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,640
some people that have that so
there are some people that

1047
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,080
strategic that get things that
some people that don't.

1048
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,640
So if you don't you're you got
to learn it right but some

1049
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,000
people just get it.
They don't need to learn.

1050
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:46,800
Like I haven't really learned.
I just get it.

1051
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,040
But then, but then some people
have that.

1052
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,280
But then what they don't have is
the ability to bypass the

1053
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,600
emotions that are going to hold
them back.

1054
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,280
Because a lot of people know
what they need to do, but they

1055
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
don't do what they know.
So they have a strategy, they

1056
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,520
have a plan, but the the fear,
the insecurity, the.

1057
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,440
Doubt.
Massive of every step of the

1058
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,040
journey just holds them back or
makes them take 10 times as

1059
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,320
long.
Even should I post?

1060
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,880
Shouldn't I post or people are
going to say this and that about

1061
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:11,200
me?
Yeah.

1062
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,920
And that to me fear it, to give
you an example of kind of the

1063
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,440
way that my brain works, it's so
absent those types of feelings.

1064
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,680
I find it absolutely bizarre.
Like I just, I look at people

1065
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,000
sometimes and I'm literally just
like I'm looking at an alien.

1066
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,920
Like when they're, when they're
crying or stressing or they're

1067
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,600
anxious or they're in panic
attacks or they're.

1068
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,120
And I.
Get anxious?

1069
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:34,400
I understand.
I don't think I'm an.

1070
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,280
Alien No, I don't mind it when
it's I don't.

1071
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,400
I I can understand it
cognitively and I can understand

1072
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,120
it when it's something
significant, like if it's a big

1073
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,120
deal.
But what I really don't get is

1074
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,680
when people create these
scenarios that actually not even

1075
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,080
drama, but they just create a
scenario that doesn't exist,

1076
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:51,560
What if this happens?
And then.

1077
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:52,600
Yeah, I do that.
Yeah, I do.

1078
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:53,640
Yeah.
And I just think, well, that's

1079
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,760
never going to happen.
And, you know, well, you don't,

1080
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:56,960
you know, that's the problem.
How do you know?

1081
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:58,920
Well, because it has happened
before.

1082
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,800
It might do.
Well, it might do, but it might

1083
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,360
not.
And that's what I tend to think

1084
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,800
about.
You know, I think about

1085
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,640
logically what is actually going
to happen, not what because of

1086
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,960
what happens is you have an
emotion that causes a reaction

1087
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,920
and that causes you to think and
then the thinking creates your

1088
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,600
behaving, the behavior creates
your results, Yes, but I don't

1089
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,960
have the emotional response.
So I just get what is the

1090
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,080
logical outcome here, not some
emotional reaction that creates

1091
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,160
OK the wrong logical.
Conclusion Would you like to get

1092
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,400
into my head for a minute?
So what you just said, I am the

1093
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,800
complete opposite to you.
So I will think of one scenario.

1094
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,960
I will think about literally
about 10:15 things that can

1095
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,600
potentially happen so that I can
be prepared for every single one

1096
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,280
of those.
And some of them will make me

1097
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,240
very anxious, some of them less
so, but I can't help it.

1098
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,360
So I will really think about
everything and probably will

1099
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,760
never materialize, but I will
analyze it to the NTH degree.

1100
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,240
And I will have all of those
thoughts all at the same time,

1101
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,680
all in my head and sometimes
like, but I will have them.

1102
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,280
And it's made me good in some
ways, but it's definitely held

1103
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,600
me back for sure.
It's given me too much anxiety,

1104
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,520
definitely.
But I see life like a chess

1105
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,680
board.
So when I and I love chess and

1106
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,040
I'm pretty good at chess, but I
will, I see moves, many moves

1107
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,000
ahead of what might or might not
transpire.

1108
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,560
So that's how I think.
Yeah, so you've got 2.

1109
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,280
You've got one piece of the in
my mind, my advantage, you've

1110
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,520
got only one piece.
Yeah, you've got the strategic

1111
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,480
chess playing, but now you're.
Competing with me.

1112
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,120
But no.
But what I'm saying is my

1113
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,200
advantage.
You have your Yeah, Yeah, you

1114
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,400
would say because you can use
your advantages to strengths

1115
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,160
like empathy.
It allows me to deeply

1116
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,680
understand and connect with
people.

1117
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,280
And to know.
And build relationships so so

1118
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,200
you have your own strengths.
But for me, I just have a

1119
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,720
strategic plan and steps and
nothing I think about other than

1120
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:45,120
just taking that step and that
step and that step and I just

1121
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,440
take every single one and I get
right to the top very quick.

1122
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,600
And you get to 25,000,000 so you
know what you're.

1123
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,080
Talking about that's everything
I want to do and also I can

1124
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,960
depart and I can departmentalize
as well.

1125
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,120
So if I've got a meet.
So you're you're thinking of a

1126
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,160
load of things that aren't going
to happen, but also there's

1127
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,560
obviously.
Some do.

1128
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,360
If you've got a load of things,
some do, yeah.

1129
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,040
And also, I would, even if they
happen, I don't care about it.

1130
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,560
You know, it's like I don't have
a I'm just like, if that

1131
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,480
happens, so you know, So what?
It's not I'm not competing, I'm

1132
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:17,640
just trying to give you a.
Perspective.

1133
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,800
OK, No, no, it's.
Because I learned, let's

1134
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,280
compete.
Because I learned, because I

1135
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,560
because I'll be like, I'll
either learn from it or I'll get

1136
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,720
through it or whatever.
You know, it is what it is.

1137
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,440
So I forget exactly where we
were.

1138
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,760
No, no, let me OK, no, no, let
me just say so, so my USP then

1139
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,560
so yes.
And and my thing is the caring.

1140
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,680
So I care so deeply that that's
what makes me good.

1141
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:43,160
Otherwise I wouldn't be able if
I don't care emotionally about

1142
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,320
making something really good and
amazing for myself, my client,

1143
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,160
If I don't, I can't pretend like
there's no pretending.

1144
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,080
I can't.
Like I can't fake it.

1145
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,560
I have to.
I am completely and utterly

1146
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,680
driven by emotion.
It's weird because it's the

1147
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,360
complete.
Yeah, I would say there's two

1148
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,400
parts of that.
One part is to be honored and

1149
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,120
owned and be like, yes, I do
care.

1150
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,760
But then you gotta be careful
not to let that blur the lines

1151
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,360
into justifying kind of all
these other things at totally,

1152
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,440
because they aren't.
They ought to do it with people

1153
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,480
like you're caring actually
about yourself because it's the

1154
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,160
outcomes that you're scared
about that you're thinking

1155
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,760
about.
Well, it's also the outcomes for

1156
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,920
my clients, because if they
don't succeed, I don't succeed.

1157
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,720
So you're telling me that we're
together in the same team?

1158
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,360
This this anxiety that you feel
around all these million things

1159
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,760
at once?
Yeah, it's partly your clients.

1160
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,720
I should imagine all areas of
your life.

1161
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,920
I'm afraid that's how it is.
So I yes.

1162
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,720
So even if I wake up at night,
so, so if I'm waking up at

1163
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:42,240
night, it is, it could be, it's
could be a client thing and I'm

1164
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:45,600
worrying about their business.
But I'm, I'm worrying because

1165
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,160
I'm responsible for things and
I'm, I will worry that if I

1166
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,000
don't get it right for them,
yes, then also it's not right

1167
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,880
for me, but I, I will, yeah,
yeah, I will.

1168
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,000
I will worry about that.
I will really worry.

1169
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,240
About it because again,
literally, I don't want this to

1170
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:02,880
be like the empath psychopath.
No, but, but in a way we we seem

1171
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,080
in a way.
Yeah, I understand we're driven

1172
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,640
from the same place as wanting
the outcome, but like in a very

1173
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,960
narcissistic, arrogant,
grandiose place, I just know

1174
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,320
I'll get the result, so I don't
care.

1175
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,480
Hey I get the results.
Yeah, I'm sure you do.

1176
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,200
I'm not see, but you're.
Taking the results.

1177
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:28,120
You're taking what I say as a as
some form of attack on you.

1178
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,800
No, I'm not.
I love it.

1179
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,840
I'll tell you what I'm not.
I literally see I see my my

1180
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,400
shortfalls in you like I
actually do.

1181
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,680
So I love this.
I think it's it's really good

1182
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:46,760
because I feel that emotion fear
also too much worry burns you

1183
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,240
out.
You're not going to get I

1184
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:52,800
listen, I know like completely
am I totally aware of my the bad

1185
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,400
things, like the things that
aren't going to push me forward

1186
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,880
and I can see that having a cool
head and strategically going

1187
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,760
forward and blocking out the
noise is even this like I don't

1188
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,880
even if it's a parable or if
it's one of those little stories

1189
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,280
about this guy who's trying to
get to the top of the mountain

1190
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,720
and loads have tried before him,
but they failed because when

1191
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:15,440
they've looked at these things
that try and distract them,

1192
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,960
these creatures or gremlins and
you turn to stone and you become

1193
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,040
one of them.
I don't know if you've heard

1194
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,560
that story and you've just got
to like.

1195
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,440
Well, using that same story
though, I'll tell you why.

1196
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,560
I will flip it back so you don't
feel so attacked by it.

1197
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:29,600
It's not.
You asked me to explain the

1198
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,160
advantages, but there's huge
disadvantages to it.

1199
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,400
So I can climb that mountain for
the rest of my life and I will

1200
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,720
never care that I've got to the
top because I just keep putting

1201
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:41,960
more snow on top, you know?
You're going to want the next

1202
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,040
thrill I'm.
Going to want the next thrill

1203
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,960
yeah.
So I so when when you get a good

1204
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,680
result for a client and they say
Oh my God, I'm so happy that's

1205
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,240
like your reward.
You must be so.

1206
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,760
OK, can I explain to you?
Yeah, Can I?

1207
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:59,200
So this is also the way things
so I, I, I am never.

1208
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,040
I think we, we spoke about this
before.

1209
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,840
I will never take a compliment
or a an insult ever too

1210
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,200
seriously.
So I'm always remaining neutral

1211
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,120
on it.
So it never really, I don't

1212
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:14,760
really something.
I don't believe it.

1213
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,240
I'll be like, yeah, you've said
that great.

1214
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,400
But it doesn't affect me in that
way.

1215
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,120
So I'm never satisfied, but in a
different way to you, because I

1216
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,720
always feel like it's not good
enough.

1217
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:26,680
It's still not something could
go wrong, you see, something

1218
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,600
could go wrong.
Maybe, you know, so I'm I'm

1219
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:34,640
never ever, but I'm also not
like like totally destroyed by,

1220
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,840
you know, I'm not like it just
works out.

1221
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,640
You know, it's the same with
trolling or compliment.

1222
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,760
If someone's oh, you're this or
that or good or bad, they will

1223
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,160
neutralize each other in the
end.

1224
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,040
I feel like I'm quite grounded
in that way.

1225
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,600
So I don't need it.
I don't need the verification of

1226
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,680
it, but it never really gives me
that ultimate high.

1227
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,320
What you're saying?
Well, yeah, because what?

1228
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:56,960
What?
I'm just going to make it just a

1229
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,120
wild assumption because it's OK
just to question, but it sounds

1230
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,240
like you're a bit of a
perfectionist that can sometimes

1231
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:07,240
manifest itself from from low
self worth.

1232
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,080
And it can be, I assume that
other people are going to treat

1233
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,080
me like this because that's
actually how I feel about

1234
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,680
myself.
And the problem is because the,

1235
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,320
the, the negative comments can
feel that that's the worst thing

1236
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,360
a perfectionist can hear because
that's the last thing they ever

1237
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,240
want to hear is that they've
done something bad or wrong.

1238
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,000
So sometimes you can create a
defence that blocks you from at

1239
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,640
feeling that that that feedback
like so I don't care what haters

1240
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,280
say.
Actually, you do, you do.

1241
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,720
But you want to tell yourself I
don't because that keeps you

1242
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,280
safe and keeps you from feeling
the immense pain that you know

1243
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,480
that you put on yourself.
The problem is if you shut off

1244
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,280
that part, you shut off the
opposite part.

1245
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,480
So if you say I'm not going to
care what haters think, you're

1246
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,120
basically saying I don't care
about opinions and you put this

1247
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:50,680
block up.
That will also stop you from

1248
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,640
feeling the praise and the
gratitude from when you do get

1249
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,280
it right.
You just become neutral.

1250
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,240
Yeah, that's interesting.
It's are you possibly on to

1251
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:58,560
something?
I would say that it doesn't come

1252
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,480
from low self worth because I've
always had good, I mean our

1253
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,600
decent self worth.
I've always believed in myself.

1254
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,240
I don't, I haven't had low self.
I'm a pretty confident person.

1255
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,240
So I wouldn't say that, but I
hear you.

1256
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,640
So I hear you.
If you don't have low self

1257
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,400
worth, why would you question
everything that you do?

1258
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:19,800
I question the good and the bad
because I always think like I

1259
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,240
always think so many other
things can happen.

1260
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,840
You just nothing is fixed in
time.

1261
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,360
Nothing stays the same, nothing
is guaranteed.

1262
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,280
It's ever evolving and you have
to work to stay on top because

1263
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:35,840
you can fall off at any second
and.

1264
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,640
When you said that, you said you
can fall off at any second.

1265
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,080
Yeah.
Are you talking about me?

1266
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,440
Everyone, life.
It's not.

1267
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,040
I'm not.
It's not only me, it's

1268
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:47,960
everybody.
So it is you, so you could fall

1269
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,280
off any second.
Everyone and me, I'm not immune

1270
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,280
to falling off from.
You have to keep working.

1271
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,920
You have to keep.
Yeah.

1272
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,600
Try it with.
I see how that feels.

1273
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:00,440
I have to keep working.
Yeah, all those things you're

1274
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:01,080
coaching.
Me.

1275
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:02,680
Just try it with I and see how
it feels.

1276
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,000
Who's doing the interview?
Both of us it's.

1277
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:08,800
A conversation.
No, no, we're not.

1278
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,600
I'm doing the interview.
I'm doing the interview.

1279
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:15,560
But I appreciate that.
I, I, you know, we approach it

1280
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,200
from different ways, but like I
told you, I totally understand

1281
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:26,280
the merit and I do work in many
ways to be a little bit like you

1282
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:31,480
in the sense that try and block
out the unnecessary noise.

1283
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:36,320
I would call it those statues
and go and just go because it it

1284
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,320
wastes energy because you're
just getting and you sometimes

1285
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,440
just got to run that race and
finish, you know, get it done,

1286
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,960
lick wounds if you need to,
whatever electrolyte drink,

1287
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,280
whatever it might be, and then
go again and go again.

1288
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,560
Repeat, repeat, repeat.
But it never ends.

1289
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,840
That's the thing.
So why aren't you happy with?

1290
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,840
Like what?
What about you getting to that?

1291
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,920
Pedestal Netflix is net.
Are you?

1292
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,200
You're not celebrating, you're
not happy.

1293
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,160
To be honest, I'm, I'm very
aware that I know that it's,

1294
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,000
it's not my ultimate desire.
I know that my longing become

1295
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,440
comes from actually wanting to
feel loved and that I've

1296
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,440
substituted that for a, a, a
quest for significance and fame

1297
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,440
and success.
And but I know that it's wrong

1298
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,600
because I'm, I'm too aware to
know that that's just bullshit,

1299
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,480
right?
Yeah, but I kind of keep the

1300
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,880
program playing in my own brain
consciously knowing that it's

1301
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,360
serving me.
So it's it's my life's still

1302
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,040
better.
It's better than it was before.

1303
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,440
So I'm not going to say I don't
want to be successful.

1304
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,720
I know that ultimately it's not
going to be my destination.

1305
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,200
It's not going to give me what I
need.

1306
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,160
But my subconscious thinks that
it does at the moment.

1307
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,600
So I kind of let that program
play out for a little bit longer

1308
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:56,480
until I have more things that I
want.

1309
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,120
And then I'll probably try and
break it down even further

1310
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,800
because sometimes you can turn
something off and it can affect

1311
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:05,480
your results or the directory of
your life.

1312
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,400
And right now, it's moving in a
good direction.

1313
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,120
I know where you are, I.
Won't lead.

1314
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,680
Yeah, I like where I am.
I like where I'm going and it's

1315
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:16,520
moving in the right direction,
but not the exact destination.

1316
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,200
And I know that if I can just
move myself forward for now, I

1317
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,280
know that I'd better recalibrate
at a later stage to give me

1318
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,040
some.
OK, so you've set your sails.

1319
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,080
I like the way.
So you, you are literally doing

1320
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,840
what you said that you do and
you've got your plan and there

1321
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,760
is a destination and you just
like almost like it's almost

1322
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:33,800
like to.
Be honest, I don't know what the

1323
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,080
ultimate destination is because
I know that I want to feel loved

1324
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:42,840
and fulfilled and I I know every
every layer of success I've

1325
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,680
achieved.
It reconfirms to me more so that

1326
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,680
I'm not going to get what I want
from it, but it's still good to

1327
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:54,560
have.
So I don't know if I'll ever be

1328
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,600
able to really, truly feel love.
I'm going, I'm working on it.

1329
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,640
I've done lots of deep work,
lots of plant medicine, lots of

1330
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,400
healers, lots of crazy things,
you know, all sorts of different

1331
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,280
therapies.
And it flickers every now and

1332
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,160
again.
And I do some like breath work

1333
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,200
or some mushrooms in the jungle
and.

1334
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,480
Mushrooms in the jungle?
Yeah, come.

1335
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,000
On I've done, yeah, I've done a
few different plant medicines

1336
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,720
from peyote to Bufo, which is
like frog poison and it sends

1337
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:24,240
you to the outer space in terms
of.

1338
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:28,800
But because I'm, I'm on a quest
to heal, you know, if I can, if

1339
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,000
I could be the first person to
cure psychopathy, then

1340
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,920
brilliant.
Let's talk about this.

1341
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,720
Let's talk about the way that
you've been educating yourself.

1342
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,280
It's a really important part and
I want to I want to go into this

1343
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,280
and you were correcting.
Let's just have a look.

1344
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,360
Let's go back to slide one,
right?

1345
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,520
Education.
You didn't pursue APHD, You've

1346
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:50,800
got it.
Yeah, I've got 1.

1347
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,040
Thank you.
Yeah, that's right.

1348
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,520
That's right.
And you really, you really want

1349
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,640
to educate yourself.
Like that's just such a you want

1350
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,880
to grow all the time, you want
to read books, you want to do

1351
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,920
all these things.
So talk to me about why

1352
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,640
education is so important to you
and how is it different to

1353
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,320
traditional education?
Yeah, I mean, this is a

1354
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,760
difficult 1 to unpack, but I
think nowadays the reason why I

1355
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,280
crave it is because it gives me
stimulation, which is like a

1356
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:19,920
sensation that it's not a
feeling, but it's something

1357
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,680
close to it, you know?
So when I keep myself busy and

1358
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,240
stimulated and learning and
growing it well.

1359
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,680
Like reading all these books and
studying is stimulating to you.

1360
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:27,840
You are definitely different.
OK.

1361
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,280
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.

1362
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,720
And without it, I just feel.
No, that's, that's cool.

1363
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,200
You know, so I want to, I
actually, you know, for example,

1364
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,760
a lot of people try and create
work life balance and they try

1365
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,480
for me, I'm the opposite.
I put on work when I, when I

1366
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,560
feel things are like not chaos,
I'm like, I need more.

1367
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,680
I need to feel, I almost want to
feel that cortisol in my, in my

1368
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:49,440
bloodstream.
I want to feel stressed.

1369
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,640
I, I want to have that kind of,
you know, fight or flight.

1370
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,760
Let's get shit done.
Actually, in that way, we have

1371
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,720
something again in common.
I like, I hate stress, but I

1372
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,320
like, I'm addicted to, to
stress.

1373
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:00,920
That's why I do stressful
things.

1374
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,200
Yeah, me too.
And it's just I think you'll

1375
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,840
have a craving of of feeling
something if because feeling

1376
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,240
nothing is not nice.
Trust me.

1377
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,360
It's a feeling of emptiness,
hollowness, flatness, numbness,

1378
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:13,440
pointlessness.
But why?

1379
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,560
Can't you just go for a walk in
nature and like look at the nice

1380
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,280
greenery and watch the wind
blowing through the trees and

1381
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,600
because.
It means absolutely nothing to

1382
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:21,680
me, no.
It's not nothing.

1383
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,560
Go and smell a flower.
Look, it's a rose.

1384
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,280
It's got scent, you know, look
at animals.

1385
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,080
A fox.
That's lovely.

1386
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,480
It's.
Nice, it's the sun on your skin.

1387
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:31,760
I mean, I get it.
Can't.

1388
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,720
You just sort of, I get it.
Just about I mean, I have to

1389
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,480
travel the world and go to some
really beautiful places to just

1390
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,960
about go, but it's not it's not
a profound.

1391
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:46,640
English countryside Sit in a
countryside grass savvy, smelled

1392
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,160
grass.
It's nice, it's sweet.

1393
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,880
It's like soft.
It's grass, No?

1394
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,320
Just grass, unfortunately, in my
brain.

1395
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,840
That's the problem with my body.
I mean, I would love to feel

1396
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,200
like that.
Do you know what my if I could

1397
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,960
swap everything that I have,
that's difficult because it's

1398
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,920
like there's battle there.
But I think deep down, if I was

1399
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,240
to be able to swap everything I
have for just a normal life

1400
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,000
where I'm just fulfilled and I
wake up and like, yeah,

1401
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,160
everything's good, you know, I'm
happy.

1402
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,920
I would I.
Don't think anyone can do that.

1403
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,440
I don't.
I don't think anyone.

1404
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,320
Well, there are there.
I know a lot of people that have

1405
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,160
nothing, but they're happy.
Yeah, no, they have nothing.

1406
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,760
They might be very you mean
money wise poverty.

1407
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,120
Yes, some of them, even some of
them I've seen.

1408
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,400
I've seen.
I went to Uganda and and and

1409
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,840
like fed kids that were on the
street and built little houses

1410
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,000
for them and stuff.
And I'm telling you, them kids,

1411
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,840
they're running around and they.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's,

1412
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:43,720
that's different.
I think that, yeah, actually a

1413
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,280
lot of the people, when they
have less as well, it's like

1414
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,600
life is less complicated and you
you don't have these sort of

1415
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,160
mental health, I would say
issues as, as well as in the

1416
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,000
modern world.
I think in some ways we bring

1417
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,040
it, we bring ourselves into the
stressful situations.

1418
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,480
Whereas when you're forced to
think about the essentials of

1419
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,800
life, go and get water, you
know, make sure that that

1420
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,560
water's reasonably clean because
you want to not die from

1421
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,680
drinking and go and milk the cow
and go and do this.

1422
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,840
And you're let's cut the wood to
keep, you're so busy.

1423
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,080
It's like you were saying you're
busy.

1424
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,320
You don't have time to think
about all these other things.

1425
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,920
You're living gratitude.
Can get missed when you're out

1426
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,640
of perspective, you know?
They have the perspective of the

1427
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,840
simple things that bring life,
you know?

1428
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,520
And they're smiling and yeah,
there is a bit of distortion, I

1429
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:33,000
think for us that.
But I also think that life,

1430
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,280
yeah, it, it can, we can get
corrupted in in ways, I mean.

1431
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,000
I can't even remember.
The question.

1432
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,240
Education, right.
Education.

1433
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,320
Yeah.
So I was spelled from school at

1434
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:48,080
15 and I in, in I signed up to
maths and English in prison,

1435
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,400
functional skills level 1.
And two you did.

1436
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,680
And this was, it was actually
just because they paid well.

1437
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,200
It was also because I wanted to
work on myself.

1438
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,120
But you could get, I think it
was £11.00 a week if you did an

1439
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:03,080
education they paid you or 10 LB
if you worked like mopping the

1440
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:04,920
floor.
So I was like, I get an extra

1441
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,960
pound, I get an extra pound and
OK, OK, let's work on myself.

1442
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,880
And but when I first went in
there, I didn't look at the

1443
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,000
board.
I screwed the paper up and I

1444
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,280
threw it and I said, I'm not
doing this shit at 25 years old.

1445
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,560
And it was just, it's just crazy
when I think back on it.

1446
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,640
But I was just so defiant and a
prison shooter.

1447
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,560
Sweet old lady Susie sat down
next to me and she just said,

1448
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,560
what's the matter?
And I don't think anyone ever

1449
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:29,760
asked me that before.
And I just blurted out.

1450
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,640
I don't understand.
And then I was really confused

1451
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,680
at why I said that because I
didn't even look at the board or

1452
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,240
look at the paper.
So how did I know I didn't

1453
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:38,120
understand?
I don't know.

1454
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,080
But I'd created this belief that
I was stupid because that's what

1455
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:42,920
my dad used to say to me.
He's called me a buffoon.

1456
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,680
And actually, I thought a
buffoon.

1457
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,200
Yeah.
No, a buffoon is like a jester,

1458
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,760
you know, like a clown.
That word really stuck with me.

1459
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,760
And I just because that's the
only person I'd looked up to of

1460
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,440
authority, I guess, at that
time.

1461
01:07:58,240 --> 01:07:59,680
He let you down, He let you
down.

1462
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:01,240
I just assumed that he was
right.

1463
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,720
And also I didn't do anything at
school when I got expelled and

1464
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,160
my whole life people told me I
was bad.

1465
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,560
And I kind of linked that with
being bad and useless and, and

1466
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:09,040
not smart.
So.

1467
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:10,800
But she was like, we'll give it
a try.

1468
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,240
And then.
OK, yeah, I kind of get it.

1469
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,000
And then I and then I started to
just do the work.

1470
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:18,720
She'd support me and then I just
got it.

1471
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,840
It was simple obviously, because
it was just like say simple

1472
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,760
calculation, but.
Simple for you maybe?

1473
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:30,080
But then I thought, you know,
what's actually stopping me from

1474
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,040
thinking that?
You know why?

1475
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,319
Now I'm kind of realizing that,
OK, it's probably come from my

1476
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:35,960
dad.
It hit me in the moment.

1477
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,760
And then I thought, I wonder
what I would do if I thought the

1478
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,319
opposite.
I was like, what about if I was

1479
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:45,200
smart and I didn't even know?
So I said, can you can you give

1480
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,600
me like a test?
And she said, I'm going to teach

1481
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,200
you how to do pie.
It's like how to do the

1482
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,680
circumference in a circle.
I was like, OK, cool.

1483
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,640
And then she gave me this like
written down a bit of paper.

1484
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:58,240
And then I came back and I said,
I've, I've memorized a Pi π to

1485
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,080
100 decimal places the next day
and just, I know you haven't.

1486
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,840
And I was like, yeah, that's
what you wanted me to do, right?

1487
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,319
It's just, I know you had to do
a calculation.

1488
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:07,000
I was like, oh, I thought you
wanted to memorize it.

1489
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,560
And so I so I came and I said, I
said I have.

1490
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:18,080
And then I just started going
3.1415126535897932384626433 and

1491
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:19,560
that is, I mean, it's, I still
remember it now.

1492
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,200
And, and then she was, she got
all the other tutors from the

1493
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,640
other classrooms in to do it.
And I was, there was a shouting

1494
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,200
out, what's this decimal place?
I was writing on the ward.

1495
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,640
And then and then I said, I'm
going to do 500.

1496
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,479
And then I came back the next
day and I did a 500.

1497
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,040
And then it was then she sat me
down and had a conversation.

1498
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,279
She was like, OK, you know, you
can do a lot more than this.

1499
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:39,720
And then I said, do you ever
think I could go to university?

1500
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,920
Because I just genuinely thought
that was just not for people

1501
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,439
like me.
You could leave at school at 16

1502
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,080
back then.
And they, and it was only, I

1503
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:48,920
don't know, they'd never because
I was, because I got expelled

1504
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:50,600
obviously at 15.
And before then they weren't

1505
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,880
even starting to talk about kind
of what you're going to do after

1506
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,040
school.
I just assumed it was reserved

1507
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:01,080
for the smart kids.
So she said, of course you can.

1508
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,400
And I just thought, and it was a
level of belief that no one had

1509
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,160
had in me before, including
myself.

1510
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,680
But I got it when she said it
because it was real.

1511
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,760
She was really certain about it.
She was like, of course you can.

1512
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:13,480
Like I was like you idiot.
Of course you can.

1513
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,600
And then so I thought, OK, oh,
I'm going to go to India.

1514
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,160
So I went to rehab after prison
for six months is a whole nother

1515
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,000
story.
And then after that I got

1516
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,080
accepted into an access course,
which is the equivalent of A

1517
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,680
levels in one year, short and
down to get you into uni.

1518
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,560
And I thought, you know what,
these kids were fresh out of

1519
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:38,080
school when I was a 26 year old
mature student technically at

1520
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,360
the time.
And but I thought, you know

1521
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:41,920
what, I'm just going to try my
hardest.

1522
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,400
I've never tried before.
I'm just going to see what I've

1523
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,240
got.
And I got a distinction in every

1524
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,440
module and every subject and won
an award at the end of the year.

1525
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:52,720
It's obviously only college.
You know, it was only Level 3 at

1526
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:54,280
the time, but it was seriously.
It was.

1527
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:55,800
Don't put it down.
Yeah, well done.

1528
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,240
Don't say only.
But what I mean is it wasn't

1529
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,640
like this huge achievement, but
it was me trying my hardest and

1530
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,560
I got 100% attendance.
I there every day.

1531
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:06,680
I was cycling there to get
there.

1532
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,600
And amazing, yeah.
And then I was like, OK, cool.

1533
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:13,880
So I got into uni and then I was
three months in and I thought it

1534
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,640
was going to be amazing.
All these academics was going to

1535
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,560
learn all this amazing stuff.
And I got in there and I was

1536
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,760
just this is flat, this is crap,
this is yeah, this is rubbish.

1537
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,120
And I was being taught, I was
being taught.

1538
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,120
I did a business manager and
entrepreneurship degree.

1539
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:32,240
I was being taught and lectured
by someone that had never left

1540
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:36,320
university so they got a PhD in
product design.

1541
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,800
Never started a business and now
just went into academics and now

1542
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,600
teach.
So I I couldn't value this

1543
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,400
person's opinion as.
Well, authority.

1544
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:45,840
Well, it was not just authority,
but there's no results.

1545
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:47,800
There's no slightly.
You have to have the the

1546
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:49,560
substance behind it.
I'm not just gonna.

1547
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,640
You're a doctor.
I listen to you.

1548
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:52,520
I don't have that.
I've got.

1549
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:53,720
Yeah.
Why should I?

1550
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:54,880
Yeah.
What have you got?

1551
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,280
I don't want what you've got, so
I'm not going to listen to you

1552
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:58,840
because I wasn't going to end up
in the same place.

1553
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,600
So I dropped out and but I don't
like that term.

1554
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,360
I chose a different path and I
went double down on my business.

1555
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,480
And by the time they graduated
on their degree, I was a

1556
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:08,400
millionaire.
So I was all right, you know,

1557
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,640
with that decision.
But then as I started creating

1558
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,880
my own sort of education online
and my own accreditations and

1559
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,120
things like that, I brought a
whole different sort of flavour

1560
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:23,520
to learning, which is more
authentic, more real, more

1561
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,120
relevant.
And then there's a whole nother

1562
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:31,200
conversation we can have around
the way that I would like to see

1563
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:33,120
education change.
But to be honest, I could talk

1564
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,600
about it for hours because it
did fail people like me.

1565
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,000
Like I it didn't support me when
I was younger.

1566
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,320
I get that.
And also it's just completely

1567
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,440
incomplete.
It teaches you how to learn

1568
01:12:44,440 --> 01:12:45,440
things.
It doesn't teach you anything

1569
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:47,200
about yourself.
Like if someone had just taught

1570
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,840
me about myself then I would
have been able to unlock

1571
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,440
everything after that I can.
See, I mean, even the way that

1572
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:55,400
you, that you coach, you're
quite sensitive to the other

1573
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,400
person's personality.
You know it.

1574
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,400
The psychology of the person is
very important to you.

1575
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:03,160
Yeah, because everyone's
different.

1576
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:07,600
Like, you can't the, the the
adage is you can't judge a fish

1577
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,800
on its ability to climb a tree.
Have you heard of that before?

1578
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:14,560
But like so you know, but
they're the standardized I.

1579
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,320
Think of it differently now that
I've met you, but.

1580
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,800
The standardized tests for
everybody and they're not

1581
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,200
understanding their, their
behavioral patterns, their,

1582
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,480
their neurodiversity, their
wants, their needs, their Rep

1583
01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:28,720
systems, their learning style,
their visual auditory.

1584
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:30,760
There's, there's so many
different like things to it and

1585
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:37,320
they just get like learn this.
And anyway, so I decided that,

1586
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,560
you know, I want to disrupt
education.

1587
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,680
It's quite a large mission, but
I want to disrupt education.

1588
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,960
So I've been working on behind
the scenes to create an

1589
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,360
alternative degree.
So we're about to be, it's taken

1590
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,480
2 years, but we're about to be
officially accredited by

1591
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:53,160
qualify, which gives us the
ability to deliver level 4 and 5

1592
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,040
diplomas and partner with
universities to better deliver

1593
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,040
degrees.
But it'll mean that I can

1594
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,240
deliver it unfortunately to the
same curriculum because that

1595
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,120
can't be changed as to
government regulated.

1596
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,840
But I can change the way it's
delivered and what's in there

1597
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:09,480
and the style and the relevance
and the excitement that's in

1598
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:09,840
there.
So it's.

1599
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,560
Not it's going to be very good
for a lot of people 100% who

1600
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,320
don't want that it's.
A very different format.

1601
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:17,120
It's all online, cheaper, all
sorts of things to it.

1602
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:23,880
But I went on a after after my
psychopath life coach, I went on

1603
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:30,480
a talk, talk TVI think it was it
was a live TV show and the guy

1604
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:32,440
hadn't even Andre or whatever
his name is.

1605
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:34,760
Andre, you're listening.
Listen up, mate.

1606
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:36,480
He hadn't even done any research
to me.

1607
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:38,160
He said just by the way, just
before we'd gone live.

1608
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,560
I haven't seen your documentary,
but he'd just been given like a

1609
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,280
script of just like try and drag
this person through the muds,

1610
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:48,440
you know, And some of the things
he came up to me was like, how

1611
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:53,080
can you teach people, you know,
anything like who, who says you

1612
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,160
are academically qualified and
all this sort of nonsense?

1613
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:57,560
Because he had a couple of
degrees.

1614
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:00,720
People that have degrees are so
protective over the money

1615
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,320
they've wasted on it that they
will tell anyone that doesn't

1616
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:06,920
have one that they are wrong.
I mean, and he was like all

1617
01:15:07,480 --> 01:15:09,760
sorts of things that because I,
because I'm not academically

1618
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,320
qualified, what I'm doing is
manipulative and it's a scam.

1619
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:13,840
He said it's close to
fraudulent.

1620
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,280
He said, how can you promise
people a better life if you're

1621
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,000
not academically qualified?
And it's, and I, and I said

1622
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:25,440
anyway, after that I thought,
OK, not because necessarily to

1623
01:15:25,440 --> 01:15:27,360
prove anything to him, but I
just knew this is what I'm

1624
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:28,680
dealing with.
And if I want to make a big

1625
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:33,040
impact, I can't completely go
against people's belief system

1626
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,560
because they're just not going
to be receptive to it.

1627
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,560
So I need to play into it.
So if you think that I need

1628
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,960
academic qualifications to be
able to make the change I want

1629
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:42,360
to make, then I'll go and get
them.

1630
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,680
So I went and got it.
So I did a PhD in

1631
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,440
transformational education and
got distinction.

1632
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,200
So, so Andre, if you're
listening to that, I'm more

1633
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:55,760
qualified than you are, my
friend.

1634
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:00,440
I mean, come on, you know,
let's, let's just, we've been

1635
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:02,600
speaking for over an hour now,
OK?

1636
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:08,600
You've told your story.
You've gone through terrible

1637
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,880
times, like bad stuff has
happened.

1638
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:15,560
You dragged, you single handedly
dragged yourself out of that.

1639
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,560
You got educated in prison
itself with this lovely lady was

1640
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,360
a Sue Susie did you say?
Yeah.

1641
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,640
And you were motivated to do
that and you did that yourself

1642
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,440
from all the stuff that you had
been through Where everyone

1643
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:34,040
society has written, you written
you completely off and you still

1644
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:38,000
got an education.
So for that man to say what he

1645
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,040
said is not okay.
Like not on any planet would he

1646
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,080
have been able to pick himself
up if he had been told these

1647
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,360
things by his own dad.
Because The thing is, the

1648
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,720
problem with parents saying such
toxic things to these little

1649
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,240
people, these little humans that
are growing up, is that they

1650
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,520
only become what the parents
said they are because they

1651
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,320
believe the parent, because that
is the voice of authority.

1652
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:02,280
So they then are just fulfilling
what's being put there.

1653
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:07,840
And it's only if they can by
some miracle grow out of that

1654
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,320
and break that programming, and
then they realize that there's

1655
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,960
this other way.
But that to do that that's also

1656
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,160
insane.
Like that is just to have the

1657
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,400
the self-awareness to do that
is, is another level.

1658
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,360
You know, it not everyone is in
that position to do that.

1659
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,880
And a lot of people will carry
on their whole life just

1660
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:29,120
reinforcing what they've been
told because that's what they

1661
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:30,760
believe.
So they just programmed and they

1662
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,920
just executing programming.
So I don't like, I don't like

1663
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:35,560
that.
I don't feel that you have to

1664
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,080
who says you have to have an
education like this or like

1665
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,560
that?
I mean, just as long as you're

1666
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,160
trying to be better, that's
that's it.

1667
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,040
Just try be better.
Yes you've done bad things but

1668
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:55,520
try whatever it is, education
how you treat people.

1669
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,440
Just be better, work on yourself
then that is successful.

1670
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:02,640
Do it whatever Rd. it is.
Do that to help other people.

1671
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:07,080
I mean, it's not just like I
it's counterintuitive and it's

1672
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,400
almost a conflict for me to to
sit here and say I care about

1673
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:11,680
people.
I'm making a difference in the

1674
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:13,120
world when I've said those
things.

1675
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:15,960
But I genuinely do yeah.
For more than one reason,

1676
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:17,240
though.
Like everything doesn't have to

1677
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:18,760
be black and white.
Like what is your intention?

1678
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,400
Is it this or this?
There's there's many, you know,

1679
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:25,640
I want to be known as
significant and I want to feel

1680
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:29,360
proud and to, although I haven't
been able to access that yet,

1681
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,240
but the idea is I want to be
able to get to some place, some

1682
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,960
point time where I can look back
and go, I'm so proud of what I

1683
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:38,160
did, you know, not necessarily
for the other people, but I'm

1684
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:39,560
glad that I was the one that did
it.

1685
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,480
You know, that's the selfish
part of it and me craving

1686
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:45,600
something for myself.
But also, I do deeply care about

1687
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,760
these people knowing that, you
know, I was once in that place

1688
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:50,320
and the wishing someone could
have helped me.

1689
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:54,320
And I on a cognitive level,
yeah, I might not feel like

1690
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:58,120
this.
Whatever you feel, I'm just

1691
01:18:58,160 --> 01:18:59,920
saying whatever anyone feels, I
don't know.

1692
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,480
I can't even, I can't even
describe it because I just don't

1693
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:05,760
get the feeling.
But I, I might not feel that

1694
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,280
sensation that people explain
how to get, but I still just

1695
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,280
100% get it.
If not, I think it's more acute.

1696
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:13,280
I think it's more sharp.
I think, I think I'm more aware.

1697
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:14,480
I think I.
Think you're very?

1698
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,160
Aware and emotion and sort of
not emotionally.

1699
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:23,840
I think I can cognitively care
and want to impact more so and

1700
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:26,600
just, but just because there's
no emotion attached to it

1701
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,320
doesn't make it any less
profound so.

1702
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,360
You're right, it's interesting,
you're right.

1703
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:36,720
And I've I've interviewed a lot
of people and never has anyone.

1704
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,280
Well, first of all, analyzed me
back because I would say I'm

1705
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:44,640
quite analyzed me back.
But also being the questions you

1706
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:49,600
are asked are quite emotional or
they they touch on the emotions

1707
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:51,720
of a person of how they perceive
themselves.

1708
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:55,960
So you're quite you're
definitely it's like incredibly

1709
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,640
aware.
I think of the other person.

1710
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:00,720
It's it's total, it's a total
superpower.

1711
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:03,160
Thank you.
And that's what I want people to

1712
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:04,760
understand.
It's not that I'm void of

1713
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:08,560
empathy, it's more so I just
don't get a physical reaction.

1714
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,080
That's pretty much it.
And there are like for example,

1715
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,880
would you think of an autistic
person as evil?

1716
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,680
Obviously not.
Obviously not, but you say

1717
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,640
obviously, but they a lot of
autistic people also do not feel

1718
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,200
any emotion.
So one of the symptoms of it,

1719
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:26,000
but they're not categorized as,
you know, evil or bad or lack

1720
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,320
don't care for other people, but
they just might not get a

1721
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,840
physical sensation.
So it's just a misperception and

1722
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,280
a lack of awareness around what
these personality disorders.

1723
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,240
Are, I mean, I've, I've totally
got a lack of awareness and I, I

1724
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:42,840
feel bad.
I feel part of the problem, you

1725
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:44,800
know, that I also think was
psychopath.

1726
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:48,280
I mean, that's really bad and
I'm so scared and it's like, I

1727
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:50,440
feel, yeah.
Because it's like then yeah.

1728
01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:52,600
How's autism different?
It is a diagnosis.

1729
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,160
And you know what the worst
thing about this is, is that I

1730
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,680
actually, I mean, I did a
business informatics degree at

1731
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:01,640
university, but as part of this,
that module, I was allowed to

1732
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,400
take another subject like
humanities that I wanted.

1733
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:10,200
So I took psychology and learnt
about personality disorders and

1734
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:12,920
all these things.
And mostly because I wanted to

1735
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,480
understand my family because I
think they.

1736
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:16,160
All of it.
Yeah.

1737
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,440
But yeah.
So I should know better, you

1738
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:21,560
know, I should know better not
to do that.

1739
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,440
And I I didn't.
I'm sorry about that.

1740
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:26,640
Oh.
Apology accepted.

1741
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,240
It's been amazing having you on.
Thank you so much.

1742
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:30,520
Thank you.