Inside the Savage Reality of The Apprentice

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Adam hoska oh Adam hoska this interview 
gets into the dirty detail of how low

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The Apprentice can go Katie Hopkins 
who you will remember didn't like a

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certain person a lot on her time on The 
Apprentice Adam hoska the two of them it's

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safe to say despise each other Adam now 
has his say and revenge on Katy Hopkins

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[Music]

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welcome to beyond the borom podcast where 
we discuss all things apprentice and Beyond

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you've had some uh controversial moments on 
the show you were contestant on season 3 yes

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of BBC's The Apprentice which add in 2007 there 
was some serious rivalry between you and Katie

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Hopkins we'll talk about her yeah how would you 
introduce yourself you have 30 seconds I've been

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as a salesperson or a sales leader for the last 
pretty much since the apprentice and I've always

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worked in Industries where I'm really interested 
in the products and I'm really passionate about

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it so I've gone from the motor industry into 
technology particularly artificial intelligence

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and analytics and insights and I get to it with 
some really exciting Brands like globally all

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manner of Brands fashion and and consumer products 
and and that kind of thing at the moment it's yeah

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it's fun that's actually perfect timing that's 
literally 30.7 you didn't really want that a

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Media train good you are properly media trained no 
because it is it's like public speaking training

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you've got to know when you're on that 3 second 
Mar so why did you agree to do this podcast with

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me part of the reason I did The Apprentice is is 
because I was a fan so I've obviously watched a

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lot of the other series um there are definitely 
series that I've missed over the years but um

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no I remember yours um there there were you and 
Fran were two the contents I liked and then you

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were just like yeah no I've had enough I'm out 
com me do anything I don't want to do okay I'm

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yeah no I just yeah is podcasting something 
I know you've got your own podcast but is it

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something you you want to do now and you like it 
you're obviously not a shy yeah I think it's a

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case of of using skills that you've got right so 
i' I'd make music videos as a hobby so I've got

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these like skills as far as like making content 
concerned and as far as the way that I do my job

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as far as reaching out to new customers and that 
kind of thing some of those people end up becoming

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customers some don't but I just think rather than 
sending out 200 emails a day like a lot of people

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do in sales I'd much rather have a conversation 
but I think the thing that people forget in sales

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is it doesn't start with a lead it starts with 
a conversation and when I really drilled that

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down and thought about it and thought what's the 
best way to have a conversation in this day and

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age what's the the most beneficial thing with the 
podcast cuz when you're on camera and everything

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it's like it's a vulnerable place to be and I 
tell you like having done this now quite a bit

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I've noticed that anyone who's brave enough and 
I do use the word brave it's quite interesting

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because you do have to be brave you do have to 
be pretty confident in yourself to sit there and

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have someone asking you questions especially if 
you've not seen the questions which you haven't

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MH so T guts maybe I'm naive sometimes but yeah 
um I don't know I just I like having conversation

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with people it's why ourselves person it's why I 
went under The Apprentice I like to try new things

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I'm not scared of giving things a go and I have 
this really weird ability to look at something

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and think I could probably do that so yeah maybe 
a little bit of overconfidence sometimes we'll

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see we'll see we'll start with something nice no 
but your mom said something so nice about you on

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your fire oh my God she's so well she's spoken 
about how when you were 9 years old from nine

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you were really into business and you cleaned 
car and you did the paper rounds and you sold

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programs you did all this stuff you were always 
keen on making money there was always even in the

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rain like unpleasant situations where everyone 
want to go home and snuggle up you were like no

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let's make money so your family is pretty like 
supportive of you I would say and shocked half

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the time with the things that really yeah my mom 
always says she's no idea where I got it from but

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yeah I grew up in a small miltown in the North in 
Blackburn there's not a whole lot of opportunity

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in a place like that there certainly wasn't in 
the 80s growing up my mom's a nurse we certainly

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weren't well off and I think there were I was 
that kid that always wanted something I wanted

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the new Matchbox car I wanted the new computer and 
I remember my my stepdad just saying you better go

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out and get yourself a paper around and earn some 
money and if burn half the amount I can't remember

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what the thing was yeah I don't remember what the 
thing was I want at the time but he said if you

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earn half then we'll buy it for you yeah so yeah I 
went out cleaning cars on the estate that we lived

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on and got a paper around what I liked as well 
about what your mom said is she never had to wor

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about you and as a mom like I've got three kids 
that's just that's just amazing she just you were

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independent from day from 9 years old yeah 
from really young but I think I've thought

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about this a lot over the years and I think 
cuz I had a stepdad and I'm mixed race so I

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guess from being really young I always felt like 
I was one out on my own where's your mom from and

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your dad so my mom is English Irish yeah born 
in Blackburn my natural dad or biological dad

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is from Morocco they broke up when I was super 
young I was still a baby when they broke up and

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then my stepdad he's from Malawi and his dad's 
from India so like my family pities growing up

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with like the United Co of beniton adverts um but 
yeah but I think it's super interesting having

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that kind of diversity when you're mixed race 
you feel sometimes like you don't belong in any

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Camp you flaw around everything and I and I think 
that just made me think a little bit differently

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and it made me independent really early and 
I think going through school and some of the

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bullying that I got from all angles I realized at 
one point that no matter what I did everybody had

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a problem with it so it didn't matter what I did 
I just did my own thing and I've just been singing

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my own tune ever since really so you didn't let it 
beat you down in a way you were just a bit like no

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I was just like that's me doesn't matter what I 
do so I want to do I'd rather fail at something

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I want to do than try and keep people happy 
I guess I've never necessarily like followed

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specific fashion trends or music trends like 
the the music that I'm into is Broad ranging

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I've always had friends that very different 
as well friends that I had at high school had

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disabilities had different sexual preferences at a 
time when that really wasn't as accepted as as it

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is today a couple yeah a couple of my friends have 
have always commented like I always seem to find

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the Freaks and weedos but I really like the Freaks 
and weos like I work with a lot of musicians now

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as a hobby and yeah and I think you put them into 
some of that sort of like different category I

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think I've always I've always admired difference 
in people standing on two feet and not just trying

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to follow the creatives as well yeah yeah I love 
creatives they just they think differently don't

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are you you proud of where you're from or you 
do you have that sort of inner sort of Pride and

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you care about where you're from and you want 
to learn about the cultures and you want to

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talk about them or is it a bit like yeah I think 
what's your attitude to I I think I'm super proud

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of being from where I'm from but I'm also proud 
of busting through a few of those glass ceilings

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of kind of the expectations of somebody that that 
would have been born where I was born went to the

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kind of school that I went to I've been quite 
happy to push through that but I've always felt

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really rooted in that but also I think I'm I am 
I'm drawn to difference often I am really drawn

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to people that think different that like artists 
musicians like that's just something that I just

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I find people fascinating again like probably the 
reason I do the podcast I do and the reason I work

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in sales when I go and see a customer I'm just 
asking them about everything that but not just the

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business about them about the family I just find 
people fascinating really yeah I listen I love

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sales as well but like when there's a customer a 
client whoever it is and and I'm just being honest

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now it's for me it's yes they could be very nice 
they might not be nice or whatever but it's like

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when I sell what I think about and I become almost 
that's my thing I become obsessed with it is

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whether what I'm giving them is something that's 
going to really help them oh yeah that's it that's

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and I almost I have to in my own brain separate 
their personality because I almost feel like if I

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let that get involved I'm getting distracted so I 
almost don't it's really weird yeah I almost don't

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think about it it's like a different approach 
but I wish I was a little bit more yeah I'm

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I'm probably the Other Extreme yeah to the point 
where if I don't if I don't like somebody yeah

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I probably don't want to work with them yeah like 
I've I have definitely been to meetings certainly

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in the earlier part of my career or had customers 
when I was selling cars where I was just like this

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person's an absolute like the yeah I actually also 
found that the the customers that were really hard

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work that I didn't get on with we never met any 
money out of them there's always problems mhm

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and the ones that I got on with we made margin we 
made good money but also I made some friends along

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the way with it as well and I don't know I think 
I I've always struggled to separate work Adam and

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private Adam yeah there isn't there there there 
is really a very blurred line between it like

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it encroaches on both areas so I'm completely I'm 
like total opposite of this so I have a work mode

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where I'm begin to describe it that is my work 
mode and I'm going to do everything in that way

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and I almost it's almost it is like a bit of 
an obsession and I have a goal and I I will

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do that and then I have my at home more chilled 
and in work I'm extroverted and at home I'm bit

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more yeah I have iird I certainly have a goal 
I certain have that drive to to win a deal but

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also I I really do look at if someone's going to 
need the products even before I go and speak to

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them so I'm usually there's a drive and the 
passion there to do that but one of my best

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friends Simon I met him when he bought a car from 
me I've got a bunch of customers that I met if I

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ever do eventually get married there there's 
probably eight or nine customers that will be

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on the invites to the wedding nice but it just 
it makes you day easy doesn't it if you get on

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with the people that you're okay like you're in 
account manager for them or something but if the

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nice people that you get on with that you you want 
to spend time with you want to take them out for

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meal and that kind of you don't want it you don't 
want sometimes you might have a client though

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that they're just awkward personalities and maybe 
they're not necessarily the people that you want

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to hang out with but I I almost feel like for me 
again I I have to take the personality out and I

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look at what are you offering to the world what's 
your product that you're offering to the universe

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and do I believe it like you were saying do I buy 
into that do I want to spend my energy helping you

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promote that yes or no and if it's yes you're 
doing really I I actually I'm on board and I'll

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even go and seek out the companies that I think 
I love it I want to be involved please can I be

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involved cuz I want to Champion that thing but 
if they're doing something corrupt or they're

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selling some stuff that I don't like or cheap 
dangerous materials or the quality is not there

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they're trying to skimp any hint of that I'm 
gone yeah I've still never sold anything to a

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company that makes tobacco products or good good 
for you anything that that's controversial but

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I can understand that right boardroom yeah what 
was it like in the boardroom for you do you know

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what probably yeah i' probably said the boardroom 
is one of the most stressful things I've ever done

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and I think it's really great now that I'm mat 
at a point where I can talk about the production

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side of things and I think juicy I think the 
way the prod I think the way the production

0:12:22.280,0:12:26.960
works and for your listeners of viewers the way 
that day works when you're in the board you get

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up super early you get ready and you do interviews 
to camera about the task that's just happened but

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you kept completely separate from all the other 
candidates the whole time the whole day you're

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then takeen to the studio you're not allowed to 
talk to each other in the car because they want

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everything to come out in the boardroom so fair 
but it creates this pressure cooker so then you

0:12:47.240,0:12:53.280
get put in a green room everybody's there nobody 
can talk to each other everybody has a a runner

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like a production assistant that follows them 
everywhere literally take you to the toilet

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and stand at the door so that's not talking 
to anyone yet yeah so you spend about 3 or 4

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hours before you even go into the boardroom just 
mulling things over and the stress levels just

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increase and increase and then you go into the 
boardroom and Alan Sugar's a very sharp man the

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assistance at the time when Nick Huer and and 
Margaret now I loved Margaret and Margaret was

0:13:21.200,0:13:27.520
very smart very intuitive Nick not so much but the 
three of them were formidable in the way they were

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going to ask questions there's always a chance 
that you're going to go it's a bit of a lottery

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and everybody's teach other aren't they so it's 
just I just found it a they RI it to each other

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and and then I had I think it was five boardrooms 
back to back oh it's exhausting yeah so the only

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time you really get get any time off is if you 
win the task on you're going and get to do you

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don't get dragged into the bottom three yeah 
so I was in the bottom three like five times

0:13:49.400,0:13:55.760
in a row so poor soul that that that by the last 
one I was like do you know what just send me all

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Ione need a STI a bottle of wine and a sleep 
yeah God God yes no it's awful it's awful so

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did you find sugar quite scary then the Lord 
sugar I wouldn't say scary I just think he's

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very sharp he he doesn't for the information he 
has he doesn't really miss a beat and he's you

0:14:13.760,0:14:18.800
can see that his mind works incredibly quickly 
so you can't really pull the wool over his eyes

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he's just very astute he's just is a formidable 
operator but also difficult to read I'd probably

0:14:24.920,0:14:29.600
say that I'm I'm pretty good at reading people 
most of the time and form a bit of a Rel ship

0:14:29.600,0:14:37.120
but he was just difficult yeah I found I found him 
quite hard to read I didn't really know where it

0:14:37.120,0:14:42.480
was going some of the times I thought i' been 
F the three episodes leading up to me actually

0:14:42.480,0:14:53.280
going did you find something different yeah I I 
think he's quite an open book I do I think it you

0:14:53.280,0:15:00.920
can see it on his face I think but maybe I don't 
know maybe it's female Intuition or something I

0:15:00.920,0:15:08.040
can I could sense what he was uh thinking I could 
also sense when he was uncomfortable I wish that I

0:15:08.040,0:15:15.680
could have access to footage that didn't make it 
to the ACT yeah me too God love I'd make a whole

0:15:15.680,0:15:20.960
another thing but we won't go there we'll go to 
Katie Hopkins so Katie Hopkins appeared alongside

0:15:20.960,0:15:29.360
you in season 3 mhm and for people that don't 
know she is a very controversial polariz ring

0:15:29.360,0:15:38.440
figure who has since become pretty famous in the 
UK for her right-wing controversial views M and

0:15:38.440,0:15:43.040
her sharp tongue and she's wound a lot of people 
up around the country she's also got quite a big

0:15:43.040,0:15:50.080
fan base yeah she's been cancelled on certain 
shows hasn't she um but then brought and entire

0:15:50.080,0:15:56.840
platforms and entire platforms but then brought 
back and unfortunately you were met with her

0:15:56.840,0:16:04.040
and there's something between the two of you your 
personalities don't quite know what it is but the

0:16:04.040,0:16:11.840
two of you despise each other it's super simple no 
swearing okay well I I'll do my best not to swear

0:16:11.840,0:16:18.560
okay and probably in the interviews that I did 
post Apprentice I I held back quite a lot okay

0:16:18.560,0:16:22.480
and perhaps part of that was some aspirations 
that I had to maybe do other things with the

0:16:22.480,0:16:31.120
BBC at the time which went by the wayside and and 
but yeah I think you answer me right before you

0:16:31.120,0:16:38.240
answer me I'm going to put out some of the things 
she said about you go I hope you'll be okay mhm

0:16:38.240,0:16:43.240
it's a long time since since this has happened 
this is quoting her so she called you a negative

0:16:43.240,0:16:54.600
Soul cocky arrogant she said you have onee speed 
setting which is slow she said as well that she

0:16:54.600,0:17:02.440
wanted to secure your exit out of the process so 
that you can go back to your Northern Chums that's

0:17:02.440,0:17:10.920
pretty rude what are your thoughts Katie spent 
hours writing little sound bites to insult people

0:17:10.920,0:17:18.280
not just you me and other people the majority 
of it wasn't really founded in reality I think

0:17:18.280,0:17:23.920
perhaps some of the things in the edit backed up 
some of the things the speed setting thing I do

0:17:23.920,0:17:29.120
talk quite slow it's an nor an accent but the 
interesting thing about what she was doing is

0:17:29.120,0:17:35.640
she particularly picked out myself and Christina 
who ended up in the final and she was just really

0:17:35.640,0:17:40.520
trying to pick Halls out of the people she 
saw as competition so from that point of view

0:17:40.520,0:17:50.680
you could say in a game quite clever as far as a 
person and the reason that we clashed it's super

0:17:50.680,0:17:59.040
simple we had a really big row I was absolutely 
Furious the other thing that happened after that

0:17:59.040,0:18:04.800
and was a conversation the back of the car where I 
I said I find it astounding that that you some of

0:18:04.800,0:18:09.880
the things that you're saying but I also find the 
way you talk reminds me of an intelligence officer

0:18:09.880,0:18:13.680
and she said what would you know about that and I 
said I trained with the Royal Navy to be a Warfare

0:18:13.680,0:18:19.280
officer and she looked at me went you're working 
class how could you have done anything with the

0:18:19.280,0:18:24.200
military at officer level you're working class 
and it's something that I talked about a little

0:18:24.200,0:18:32.280
bit at the time that perception that I had really 
seems to come to the four in more recent years the

0:18:32.280,0:18:37.360
more time's gone on the more she yeah but the 
more she stayed in the media it wasn't just me

0:18:37.360,0:18:42.200
feeling that at the time she's come out and 
said these things do you feel Vindicated in

0:18:42.200,0:18:48.040
some way that you've you've said that my my 
grandfather always used to say that there's

0:18:48.040,0:18:54.280
no point responding to somebody who's a horrible 
person because eventually everybody will figure it

0:18:54.280,0:19:02.880
out so I did sit back and let hang self and there 
was a time where measurably you could say she was

0:19:02.880,0:19:10.600
more successful she was still on TV she was doing 
the ITV Morning Show she was doing a a radio show

0:19:10.600,0:19:16.240
with one of one of the London radio stations and I 
bumped into in the K West and said you don't want

0:19:16.240,0:19:20.520
to speak and I no not really and then there was 
I can't remember the exact wording but the part

0:19:20.520,0:19:24.880
of the conversation was you're just jealous cuz 
I'm doing better than you and I just said and I

0:19:24.880,0:19:30.360
said that it's a marathon okay the race isn't over 
yet and then you're fast forward to today and I I

0:19:30.360,0:19:35.440
went off and did what I did I didn't go chers in 
media things I've been working my backside off as

0:19:35.440,0:19:42.000
a salesperson in in tech companies and I'm happy 
with the progress that I've made Happy I've done

0:19:42.000,0:19:47.000
thank God we'll see what I say today but maybe the 
extreme right might cancel but they're welcome too

0:19:47.000,0:19:51.800
because that's not really the way that I view the 
world but you can have different views politically

0:19:51.800,0:19:56.280
or whatever but yeah there is a way that you 
don't treat people yeah but there's like but

0:19:56.280,0:20:01.160
then there's extreme political views isn't there I 
have friends that would consider the themselves to

0:20:01.160,0:20:05.560
be more conservative in the leanings and I've got 
friends that would consider themselves to be very

0:20:05.560,0:20:09.640
liberal in the leanings and I like a conversation 
the best I think one of the saddest things about

0:20:09.640,0:20:13.560
Society now is it's Polar Opposites and the two 
never meet and never discuss anything because I

0:20:13.560,0:20:17.320
think the more that I travel and I'm mostly 
just traveling around Europe but wherever I

0:20:17.320,0:20:21.760
go people are the same they speak a different 
language there's some cultural differences but

0:20:21.760,0:20:25.400
but I'm always interested in like the different 
foods that people eat the different music that

0:20:25.400,0:20:28.360
people listen to the different way they view 
the world like when you go out there and you

0:20:28.360,0:20:32.160
meet people you find that we're all we're all 
pretty much the same we want our families to

0:20:32.160,0:20:39.000
be safe and happy we want our children to have 
opportunities we want to live a good life now

0:20:39.000,0:20:45.360
whether it's people in Israel Palestine Russia 
the Ukraine France Germany we're all the same

0:20:45.360,0:20:49.760
and when I meet people like KY that feel that 
they are better than other people who are from a

0:20:49.760,0:20:56.560
different place I just find them super misguided 
and yeah so so yeah I think just intrinsically

0:20:56.560,0:21:03.120
as a person she just just I felt like a lot of 
the things that she said violated me at a at a

0:21:03.120,0:21:09.880
really deep personal level did they yeah what did 
she say to you that was the most hurtful you read

0:21:09.880,0:21:17.600
some you readful thing for it was just the most 
hurtful the dismissiveness of but you're working

0:21:17.600,0:21:23.720
class how how could you have done anything with 
the Royal Navy just absolutely dismissive of

0:21:23.720,0:21:28.720
you're from the north you work in class how 
could you have done something that I can do

0:21:28.720,0:21:32.280
I've sat in the car and Apprentice with us that's 
another thing that she could do that I could do

0:21:32.280,0:21:39.880
but yeah what is interesting for me and I don't 
know how you've managed to have such selfcontrol

0:21:39.880,0:21:46.000
and composure and I respect you for it is like 
how did you not lose your mind where she was

0:21:46.000,0:21:52.600
literally saying those things to you like how did 
you not if she dared speak like that to me I I'm

0:21:52.600,0:21:58.520
really not sure what would have happened but I 
didn't anyone but yeah I mean I I didn't very

0:21:59.560,0:22:06.400
yeah I am but I also didn't want to explode 
because the the problem then is it's he said she

0:22:06.400,0:22:14.160
said if you explode it becomes a gray area when 
you start having a massive argument about it all

0:22:14.160,0:22:19.960
of a sudden people take sides and it's a gray area 
whereas I just rather people just carry on doing

0:22:19.960,0:22:24.480
that thing that I find ab barant and let them 
do more of it and then eventually people figure

0:22:24.480,0:22:31.160
it out so if she's watching she might not be she 
might be you never know she might be interested in

0:22:31.160,0:22:34.920
what people think about her what would you want 
to say to her or if you bumped into her again

0:22:34.920,0:22:42.440
what would you want to say to her go traveling K 
go traveling go traveling and meet people get in

0:22:42.440,0:22:49.960
the mix get off the Beaten Track go to India go 
to the African continent go and meet people from

0:22:49.960,0:22:56.080
different places and you'll start to realize that 
actually we've got a lot more similarities than

0:22:56.080,0:23:02.120
we've got differences and then maybe you can then 
go and talk to people that are in these right-wing

0:23:02.120,0:23:07.080
extreme groups that you once thought that way too 
and now you've realized things are a little bit

0:23:07.080,0:23:15.720
different do you know what I if I may think that 
you can't actually change people fundamentally I

0:23:15.720,0:23:21.280
think unless there's some major crisis they can 
change the selves I don't even think they can I

0:23:21.280,0:23:25.480
think that maybe no they can there are some signs 
at your brain there's some neuroplasticity and you

0:23:25.480,0:23:36.080
can change certain connections personal FAL yeah 
I just spending energy on asking her to Value this

0:23:36.080,0:23:43.280
or that is is almost like CU if I look at that 
sort of situation if I see someone speaking like

0:23:43.280,0:23:52.040
that or acting like that or whatever I don't see 
that as someone that I'm that I care to convince

0:23:52.040,0:23:58.800
of anything because I see that as she talks about 
class and things that's not showing class or

0:23:58.800,0:24:04.960
or anything that's just being rude for being 
rude's sake it just I'm not interested in in

0:24:04.960,0:24:08.280
in changing that around you know what I mean I 
don't have that time for that it's not so much

0:24:08.280,0:24:15.320
that I'm suggesting that she changes do you want 
her to change what I'd suggest to a young man or a

0:24:15.320,0:24:21.120
young woman that was starting to lean that way and 
I think it would be massively beneficial for any

0:24:21.120,0:24:27.240
young person to finish their air levels and before 
they go to university get a rook sack go travel

0:24:27.240,0:24:32.480
and meet people and I just think the people that I 
know that I've met through my life that have done

0:24:32.480,0:24:40.560
that they seem to have much more understanding 
about the human condition and Society yeah and

0:24:40.560,0:24:45.480
the implications of those kinds of thoughts I just 
find them to be kind to people yeah and I just

0:24:45.480,0:24:53.200
think alls I can suggest for her or for anybody 
else that might somehow think that they hate other

0:24:53.200,0:24:58.320
people they probably hate the themselves so they 
should probably go go and do some kind of count

0:24:58.960,0:25:03.240
yeah they should probably go and do some travel 
and meet other people and just so those opinions

0:25:03.240,0:25:08.040
that they formed can be tested really yeah and 
they can start to understand things but I guess

0:25:08.040,0:25:12.800
you've got the what you're saying people might not 
change but I've seen people change over the years

0:25:12.800,0:25:16.880
and you've got personality and you've got Behavior 
behavior is very easy to change we do that in

0:25:16.880,0:25:21.600
organizations all the time we do that through 
marketing campaigns and we've seen Behavior change

0:25:21.600,0:25:26.160
through the years when I look back to the 1980s 
the things that were acceptable to do and say and

0:25:26.160,0:25:33.080
the ways to act are no longer acceptable to today 
so people at an individual level or at a societal

0:25:33.080,0:25:38.800
level do change yeah fundamental personality 
it yeah it does need a shift sometimes it needs

0:25:38.800,0:25:44.400
trauma but what it really needs is experience so 
I'd suggest the same thing to KY or to anybody

0:25:44.400,0:25:50.520
else and also if you're watching things on social 
media and something's making you hurt a group of

0:25:50.520,0:25:56.960
people really question why somebody's feeding you 
that information and I always think you should

0:25:56.960,0:26:04.040
follow the money as well like why do we need to 
hurt people because it it increases clicks is a

0:26:04.040,0:26:09.560
lot of it is a game and she probably doesn't hate 
people as much as she's making out she does no no

0:26:09.560,0:26:15.440
she does coming back to the behavioral thing you 
can change some behaviors because of situation

0:26:15.440,0:26:20.040
but there is the saying that a leopard doesn't 
change its spots and you can take a leopard and

0:26:20.040,0:26:24.840
you can move it to Antarctica it's still a leopard 
it's in Antarctica it's going to have to change

0:26:24.840,0:26:30.320
its behavior in some way it will always remain a 
leopard I hear what you're saying but I think with

0:26:30.320,0:26:38.720
some people you have to put energy into the right 
places and and if someone's got such views it is

0:26:38.720,0:26:43.240
about them and there's something not quite there's 
an insecurity there I think but it's like an issue

0:26:43.240,0:26:49.200
with them I think there's neuroplasticity to all 
of us but there are people that have severe mental

0:26:49.200,0:26:57.600
health conditions that means they are evil there 
are people in Broadmore prison who have murdered

0:26:57.600,0:27:02.440
multiple people people there are people with 
really severe mental health conditions those

0:27:02.440,0:27:06.480
are illnesses that they they don't even know 
but I think they're the only people that you

0:27:06.480,0:27:12.240
really truly would struggle to change yeah they 
probably the people that you can because a lot

0:27:12.240,0:27:16.920
of you've got a schizophrenic for example who's 
committing these atrocities these murders like a

0:27:16.920,0:27:24.240
catatonic schizophrenic so an aggressive you can 
give them medicine and it rebalances does it yeah

0:27:24.240,0:27:29.920
literally does it rebalance it'll rebalance 
some of chemical elements of the brain but it

0:27:29.920,0:27:36.240
usually numbs them that's what those medications 
would usually do I'm no expert on psychology or

0:27:36.240,0:27:41.960
psychosis or any any of the other conditions that 
that people might suffer from but my rudimentary

0:27:41.960,0:27:47.880
understanding from my M being in the in the health 
service for 40 odd years is that some people's

0:27:47.880,0:27:53.480
brains are through for lack of understanding 
of the the technical terminology just wide

0:27:53.480,0:27:59.840
up a little bit different yeah there are people 
that just have some IDI syncrasy that lead them

0:27:59.840,0:28:04.760
to thinking very differently and sometimes that's 
a good thing and sometimes that's a bad thing but

0:28:04.760,0:28:10.920
there are some people that if they really can't 
change and they fill with hurt then my first step

0:28:10.920,0:28:14.840
would always be that they should look at the C 
and then they should look at the wider world but

0:28:14.840,0:28:20.440
but it is within them yeah but I think that the 
odd person that that perhaps can't change I would

0:28:20.440,0:28:26.520
hope that KY one day does go and see a counselor 
and because it's nothing to do with people coming

0:28:26.520,0:28:31.240
across on boards from other countries that's a 
little bit like the old adage of the red ant and

0:28:31.240,0:28:36.680
the black ant right you get red ants and black 
ants you put them in a jar and they will coexist

0:28:36.680,0:28:42.160
perfectly fine you shake the jar and they'll 
kill each other but it's because they think

0:28:42.160,0:28:46.920
the other ones shaking the jar but someone else 
is shaking the joy we just need to figure out as

0:28:46.920,0:28:53.080
a society who's really shaking The Joy because 
let's be honest the reason that you can't get

0:28:53.080,0:28:59.040
a doctor's appointment in the UK is because of 
funding it's nothing to do with the fact that

0:28:59.040,0:29:05.640
people are coming from another country the reality 
of it is the majority of people that are coming

0:29:05.640,0:29:10.000
from other countries are coming because they need 
a better life because the cities and towns have

0:29:10.000,0:29:15.000
been bombed to pieces and if it happened in 
the UK the Russians invaded tomorrow and bomb

0:29:15.000,0:29:23.200
the hell out of London we'd all be heading south 
to try and find safe a for a children and I dare

0:29:23.200,0:29:27.880
anyone to say that they wouldn't be doing that 
if we've created situations at a global level

0:29:27.880,0:29:32.960
that that has led to mass migration then we 
need to look at the root cause of the problem

0:29:32.960,0:29:38.920
and solve that we need to put investment back into 
these countries that we've caused problems in so

0:29:38.920,0:29:45.240
people don't need to leave and actually we've we 
sold a story around the world as a nation right

0:29:45.240,0:29:50.000
back into the Empire that we were the motherland 
that we were the international police force that

0:29:50.000,0:29:56.360
we were the good guys so when your city is being 
rocked by bombs and blown to pieces and you're

0:29:56.360,0:30:00.800
like where can I go that's safe with my children 
will be safe where they'll get health care where

0:30:00.800,0:30:05.640
they'll get opportunities and then you look at 
the implications of the people that have come

0:30:05.640,0:30:10.080
here a couple of generations ago and where the 
children are now the majority of them are super

0:30:10.080,0:30:15.840
high performers because they value what we have 
here the parents value what we have here I just

0:30:15.840,0:30:20.440
find the views that somebody like Hopkins 
has just to be utterly misguided and really

0:30:20.440,0:30:25.360
ill-informed and very one-dimensional and just 
not looking at the bigger picture of why these

0:30:25.360,0:30:30.680
things are happening and just having sympathy 
for those people my God imagine walking and

0:30:30.680,0:30:38.120
hitchhiking from Syria to the French border 
with a 7 yearold and a three-year-old and

0:30:38.120,0:30:42.480
having barely any money and then getting 
on a raft and risking the lives of your

0:30:42.480,0:30:51.200
children to say you haur those people and you 
want them to drown we're going to move away

0:30:51.200,0:31:02.640
from [Laughter] politics did you lie in the 
boardroom um it yes or no answer just for now

0:31:02.640,0:31:10.760
not intentionally so no certainly didn't I think 
there were a couple of things happened that day

0:31:10.760,0:31:16.160
and I was pretty convinced that something happened 
with a particular product but it happened with a

0:31:16.160,0:31:23.400
different one was I in acccurate yes did I do it 
intentionally no it was do you lie yes or no I

0:31:23.400,0:31:29.400
was inaccurate I cuz to lie is to be absolutely 
aware I was unaware were so you know too like

0:31:29.400,0:31:33.600
yeah so did I say something that was inaccurate 
yes I absolutely did did I do it but did I do

0:31:33.600,0:31:38.120
it intentionally speaking or or or providing the 
wrong inform inaccurately informed or confused I

0:31:38.120,0:31:43.760
was confused but there's lying is lying lying is 
deliberately Mis deliberate did you do that did I

0:31:43.760,0:31:49.280
deliberately mislead no no because Lord sugar 
claims that you did and he said that was the

0:31:49.280,0:31:56.840
final nail in the coffin and the ultimate reason 
for your firing so that's not accurate then then

0:31:56.840,0:32:02.240
so what what what he said when he fired me was 
it was a little bit like somebody up there was

0:32:02.240,0:32:05.880
telling him something cuz I was in the boardroom 
every week that was his ultimate reason because

0:32:05.880,0:32:10.840
I've been in every week yeah yeah and it was like 
I think he was probably looking at it that like if

0:32:10.840,0:32:16.120
the candidates don't like him and they're dragging 
him in then there's something that might mean that

0:32:16.120,0:32:20.480
he's not the ideal candidate for me they have to 
make excuses for why they get rid of people anyway

0:32:20.480,0:32:25.520
there has to be a timate to be fair when we did 
a rap party he apologized said he have watched it

0:32:25.520,0:32:31.640
back there's no way he would have got rid of me so 
that was a bit of to medication so what's the main

0:32:31.640,0:32:40.920
thing that Apprentice taught you for me I think 
so the way the tasks work 6 o'clock in the morning

0:32:40.920,0:32:46.840
you're given a dossier and it's today guys you're 
going to go to London Zoo and sell sweets or today

0:32:46.840,0:32:51.320
guys you've got to set up a coffee business or 
a food business and go and sell it on the street

0:32:51.320,0:32:58.040
the fact that with a group of people and a seed 
fund of sometimes a few hundred maybe a thousand

0:32:58.040,0:33:06.520
pound between 6:00 a.m. and midday we've created 
a company bought the supplies and gone out on the

0:33:06.520,0:33:13.120
street and started selling something is phenomenal 
and I think that's the lesson that the sh really

0:33:13.120,0:33:18.480
fails to deliver to the public because if I was 
a 13-year-old kid at school in Blackburn watching

0:33:18.480,0:33:25.200
that I'd be like I could do something yeah it's 
easy to start a business I just need a couple of

0:33:25.200,0:33:32.760
quid some stock and off I go and then build from 
there you say that but most businesses fail don't

0:33:32.760,0:33:41.320
they they do they do and I think most people that 
start a business they're either not really worried

0:33:41.320,0:33:47.480
about risk or they don't have anything to lose 
so a lot of businesses that are started to buy

0:33:47.480,0:33:52.760
young people because they don't have MS to feed 
at home but yeah they do fail other businesses

0:33:52.760,0:33:56.280
fail because people go into something they don't 
know anything about and Alan sugar talks about

0:33:56.280,0:34:02.000
that often I stick to what you know and there's 
definitely something in that if you if it's not

0:34:02.000,0:34:05.760
something that you know about You' certainly got 
to learn about it and and learn as you go so I

0:34:05.760,0:34:10.360
wouldn't say that if you don't if you got a great 
idea and it's not something that you know enough

0:34:10.360,0:34:14.600
about then you've got to go out and talk to a lot 
of people if you just start something you don't

0:34:14.600,0:34:20.440
know what you don't know so you're not so you're 
not going to be in the best position but there's a

0:34:20.440,0:34:24.520
lot of businesses out there that that are started 
by people a little bit further into the cre that

0:34:24.520,0:34:30.360
do succeed so if you look at the average age of an 
entrepreneur that has a net worth above a million

0:34:30.360,0:34:36.080
it's about it's between 42 and 45 that's accurate 
so I think go out there and learn if other people

0:34:36.080,0:34:40.080
that them pay you a wage while you learn and 
then set up your own business would probably

0:34:40.080,0:34:44.960
be the advice I'd give to a young person but also 
I would never put someone off starting something

0:34:44.960,0:34:50.720
because actually if you start simple you can go 
and buy some stock and get a license to sell on

0:34:50.720,0:34:55.400
a street cor somewhere and go and start selling 
something do some stuff so your old boss actually

0:34:55.400,0:35:00.720
because you're now in sales and you're pretty 
much at the top of the the pack with that you're

0:35:00.720,0:35:09.600
doing really well your old boss said that nobody 
doubts your talent hard work or your skills so

0:35:09.600,0:35:15.320
taking that into account how would you rate your 
success today on a scale of 1 to 10 one bad 10

0:35:15.320,0:35:29.320
amazing probably a six oh there was a middle part 
of my career where I don't think put work first

0:35:29.320,0:35:40.080
what did you put first friends music women all the 
classical distractions yeah yeah I think that yeah

0:35:40.080,0:35:46.080
there was a there there was definitely a period 
there where I was ambitious I wanted to do well

0:35:46.080,0:35:51.280
um you got distracted I got distracted but also 
from where I'm from the expectations that I felt

0:35:51.280,0:35:57.640
like I proved the people I wanted to prove wrong 
at one point I think that self-actualization piece

0:35:58.240,0:36:03.600
I really struggled with post Apprentice a couple 
of years after getting some good jobs the things

0:36:03.600,0:36:10.040
that people told me I couldn't do i' then gone 
and done and then it was like really struggling

0:36:10.040,0:36:15.360
with purpose and I had to spend quite a bit of 
time and really look at what my purpose was and

0:36:15.360,0:36:21.200
then kicked on so I think I possibly lost a few 
years there um I've been involved with a couple

0:36:21.200,0:36:24.840
of businesses that haven't quite worked out I've 
taken some big risks I've put some big money into

0:36:24.840,0:36:29.800
a couple of companies that haven't quite worked 
out do I feel like I fulfill my potential not even

0:36:29.800,0:36:38.920
close I regularly meet with C Level Executives at 
massive multi-billion dollar organizations and I

0:36:38.920,0:36:47.960
feel like I could mix it in roles at that level 
and I'm not at that level so I do rather feel that

0:36:47.960,0:36:54.440
I could have probably done more so why why aren't 
you at that level I'm working towards it still I'm

0:36:54.440,0:37:00.680
far from a finished article but regardless of 
any titles that I have now or I've had in the

0:37:00.680,0:37:06.880
past I'm ultimately still just a Salesman is 
the way I look at it when I do feel that I've

0:37:06.880,0:37:12.200
got great capability as being a Salesman but I've 
also got capability above and beyond that that I

0:37:12.200,0:37:19.160
don't feel like I I am either able to access 
due to my role or that anybody would want me

0:37:19.160,0:37:24.400
to access so there's times when I probably feel 
a little bit handcuffed by the role that I'm in

0:37:24.400,0:37:28.360
like I need to stay on task I need to bring the 
deals in and it's a lot of work and there isn't

0:37:28.360,0:37:33.120
time to do other things it's a lot of work sales 
especially at top level yeah so there isn't really

0:37:33.120,0:37:37.800
the time to do that but do I have but do I have 
aspirations of getting to the point of being like

0:37:37.800,0:37:42.400
a chief sales officer or chief sales and marketing 
officer at some point yeah absolutely you can

0:37:42.400,0:37:47.120
earn huge do this is the other problem this is 
the other problem with being in sales isn't it

0:37:47.120,0:37:53.120
because so tempting to chase the yeah cuz I can 
earn a CEO salary oh yeah doing a sales rooll

0:37:53.120,0:37:57.560
yeah of course so and not have the pressure and 
not have the pressure of running a business yeah

0:37:57.560,0:38:01.760
but you do have the pressure of bringing the bacon 
home to feed everyone else they all relying on you

0:38:01.760,0:38:06.880
waiting for their steak but that was a problem 
Fe them but that was a problem in Korea yeah the

0:38:06.880,0:38:15.200
problem with ker was I was earning really good 
money and finishing work at 6 o' some nights and

0:38:15.200,0:38:21.000
just dropping it forgetting about it whereas when 
I ran my own company it was 24 hours a day like

0:38:21.000,0:38:26.320
I was dreaming about it it was just non which 
do you want which do you want this is the you

0:38:26.320,0:38:31.520
want to be dreaming about a business 24 hours 
a day this is the thing isn't it I think what

0:38:31.520,0:38:37.960
I found the second you think you've got there 
you go backwards the really top companies in

0:38:37.960,0:38:44.800
the world value their top sales people yeah big 
time and the top sales people are amongst that

0:38:44.800,0:38:53.520
sort of the elite crowd because they realize that 
without them there isn't much are you happy do you

0:38:53.520,0:39:00.720
know what mostly am I completely satisfied with 
everything everything no um I have a really great

0:39:00.720,0:39:07.240
life I'll be honest with you like the role that 
I'm doing today I travel around seeing customers

0:39:07.240,0:39:12.760
all the time so my dayto day don't get me wrong 
it's sales it's high pressure it's very difficult

0:39:12.760,0:39:19.080
to win business these days I haven't seen anything 
not be signed off by a CEO and an entire board in

0:39:19.080,0:39:24.360
years so there's pressure but like from a from 
the role that I do from the job that I do super

0:39:24.360,0:39:29.080
happy with where I am what I'm doing I feel like 
I can do a lot better but it's the stuff outside

0:39:29.080,0:39:32.960
of that as well so like the podcast that I do 
as well I really enjoy doing I like having a

0:39:32.960,0:39:38.080
creative Outlet I film music videos with a lot of 
musicians in Manchester and try my best to help

0:39:38.080,0:39:42.160
them with marketing and go to market strategy 
and all the stuff that you wouldn't naturally

0:39:42.160,0:39:47.440
be able to do as a musician they never listen 
to me because they're creatives they've always

0:39:47.440,0:39:52.040
got a vision for doing that and then as soon as 
I start talking about sales funnels or marketing

0:39:52.040,0:39:57.320
funnels they like no disgusting but yeah I've got 
that I've got a fantastic group of friends like

0:39:58.040,0:40:02.800
especially at the age that I am now like mid 40s 
and I've still got a really big group of friends

0:40:02.800,0:40:09.280
a really diverse selection so yeah and I I I get 
to see a bit of the world and yeah but do I feel

0:40:09.280,0:40:16.000
like I'm there yet no I want to earn enough money 
to buy a house in Italy and do more things yeah so

0:40:16.000,0:40:21.160
I worked in Italy for a year with a a company 
called Wonder Flor and just loved the country

0:40:21.160,0:40:28.480
and the people and yeah it's just beautiful isn't 
it and the food the wine like just the way people

0:40:28.480,0:40:33.120
are like I said before I like having people 
around I like that social engagement I like

0:40:33.120,0:40:36.920
going to the bar and having drinks with friends 
after work Italians like that too socializing so

0:40:36.920,0:40:41.120
you'd probably be in the right place maybe not so 
much some other countries fit fit in fit in there

0:40:41.120,0:40:46.360
pretty well what about your health I need to lose 
a bit of weight how much how much weight do you

0:40:46.360,0:40:50.320
want to lose I need I probably need to lose about 
two Stone to be honest so just getting in that

0:40:50.320,0:40:55.040
routine is super difficult you know what I'm going 
to say to that you've got to make time for it

0:40:55.040,0:41:01.480
there's no excuse you got to travel your skipping 
rope or your whatever it is Peter that I work with

0:41:01.480,0:41:07.160
takes his running shoes and shorts you can run 
anywhere in the world yeah that's my problem

0:41:07.160,0:41:16.240
anywhere in the world you can anywhere so I can't 
run I've got a a a [ __ ] knee do you yeah and to

0:41:16.240,0:41:23.120
be honest with you I I studied sport management at 
University running and jogging are wor some of the

0:41:23.120,0:41:30.040
worst things you can do for your health exercise 
is super important endurance exercise particularly

0:41:30.040,0:41:34.720
things like hit training super useful but the 
human body is not designed for a constant paer

0:41:34.720,0:41:39.120
your heart's not designed for it your joints 
aren't designed for it we're designed to hunt

0:41:39.120,0:41:44.560
so we're designed to walk and track animals and 
then Sprint and capture animals that's what we've

0:41:44.560,0:41:50.440
evolved to do to run at one pace for a long period 
of time we're not we're just not physiologically

0:41:50.440,0:41:55.920
designed to do that what if we're hunting an 
animal for 5K we need to we need to speed up

0:41:55.920,0:42:00.880
yeah you would so if you look at the the the the 
tribes in the savannah of Africa that still do

0:42:00.880,0:42:08.240
that they don't run they will walk and they will 
jog and they lean like they are still what we are

0:42:08.240,0:42:15.640
supposed to be as a species but it's akin to hit 
training it's the change of pace and actuallyy

0:42:15.640,0:42:18.920
yeah and and and if you want to lose weight 
because this is the problem with me being a little

0:42:18.920,0:42:23.240
bit overweight at the moment is I know exactly 
what I'm supposed to do of course you do so what's

0:42:23.240,0:42:28.440
next for you so I think yeah there's a couple of 
things like obviously getting back in share that

0:42:28.440,0:42:35.720
are really important but at the moment the big 
thing that I'm thinking about is just secure my

0:42:35.720,0:42:42.920
future financially and I'm obviously mid- 40s I'm 
looking out as far as Retirement and making sure

0:42:42.920,0:42:49.280
that I own a house in the place I want to retire 
to so at the moment I'm living in the city center

0:42:49.280,0:42:53.880
of Manchester I've got an apartment in the city 
center and it's perfect because I'm easy to the

0:42:53.880,0:42:59.120
train station the airports we're traveling I love 
music I'm out in Manchester watching bands and

0:42:59.120,0:43:04.720
musicians all the time so for now it's great but 
you want your yeah but when I retire I'm thinking

0:43:04.720,0:43:10.280
like a Maly call store or something like that so 
yeah so I need to bring in some business and earn

0:43:10.280,0:43:16.400
some money to be able to afford to do that and 
retire by the time I'm 60 or 65 but then I do

0:43:16.400,0:43:20.640
lecturing at University of Leeds as well there's 
a guest lecture and I've really enjoyed that so

0:43:20.640,0:43:26.240
the other thing that I'm looking at is getting my 
masters finished off and then potentially doing a

0:43:26.240,0:43:32.000
PhD because I I wouldn't want to be an active when 
I retire I think I'd like to give something back

0:43:32.000,0:43:39.120
so I'm looking really at like on that long-term 
scale of buying a house somewhere else yeah it's

0:43:39.120,0:43:45.120
been brilliant having you on Adam oh you loved 
hearing all the stories all controversy and I

0:43:45.120,0:43:49.200
really hope that you get that beautiful house 
in Italy I'll be held accounted by everybody

0:43:49.200,0:43:53.600
on YouTube that exactly now that you said it 
that's what I love about it you put yourself up

0:43:53.600,0:44:04.080
there you make yourself comfortable boom I like 
it I like it thanks much thanks for having me