What Really Happens After Winning The Apprentice?

0:00:00.120,0:00:06.720
you won BBC The Apprentice I think I I won it 
almost easily I said hi my name is Mark Ry and

0:00:06.720,0:00:13.440
I'm the winner of the 2014 apprentice and she 
was like she just laughed anyway on the night

0:00:13.440,0:00:19.240
that I won the show the lady from the reception 
came in to the your HED show and she said do you

0:00:19.240,0:00:23.720
remember me I'm the lady from reception and you 
said Your name's Mark R and you're going to win

0:00:23.720,0:00:30.960
the show and you want it what are you afraid of 
in life are you running from anything [Music]

0:00:37.640,0:00:42.560
I'm Alexandre King and I'm the host of Beyond 
The Boardroom podcast in this episode we look

0:00:42.560,0:00:49.120
at what happened after Mark won The Apprentice 
how much help did Mark actually get what actually

0:00:49.120,0:00:57.460
happened and why did he land up selling 
his business and walking away tune [Music]

0:00:57.460,0:01:11.960
in so you go in you then win 250,000 investment 
how do you feel it felt like a madeup fairy tale

0:01:11.960,0:01:19.480
sort of moment it was like all my family was there 
and the sort of there was so much happening and

0:01:19.480,0:01:25.520
uh you know I my social media following went 
through like went up hundreds of thousands in

0:01:25.520,0:01:31.280
one day people on the street were asking me for 
selfies I mean you you you you'll know this it's

0:01:31.280,0:01:38.360
just I went from being a regular person that's 
backpacking in the UK to like everyone asking

0:01:38.360,0:01:44.640
for photos hundreds of thousands of people on 
social media um people wanting me to pay me

0:01:44.640,0:01:52.480
to go here and do this and it was just so much it 
was too much I couldn't um process it at the time

0:01:52.480,0:01:59.840
I probably haven't even processed it to to this 
day it was amazing it was a once- in A- lifetime

0:02:00.680,0:02:07.280
incredible enjoyable experience and I I I'll look 
back on it when I'm sitting in a nursing home and

0:02:07.280,0:02:13.960
I think no matter what happens in my life before 
that point or or to the day I die that will be

0:02:13.960,0:02:21.200
one of the things I think about on my death it's 
a moment of elation of complete ecstasy must be

0:02:21.200,0:02:28.120
so you then have Lord sugar as a business partner 
you're one year in you're turning over 1.7 million

0:02:28.120,0:02:34.720
you've got over 30 members of sta you've got 230 
odd clients that's a lot of clients by the way to

0:02:34.720,0:02:38.920
cope I mean I know a thing or two about digital 
marketing companies agencies such as such as the

0:02:38.920,0:02:46.480
one you were running my husband runs the same 
and it's like 230 clients so how are you coping

0:02:46.480,0:02:50.680
with the pressure and then you've got Lord sugar 
and his accounting team and you got meetings like

0:02:50.680,0:02:57.520
how are you even surviving not not well not well 
I made a lot of mistakes in the first two years

0:02:57.520,0:03:03.560
the first three years particularly uh my main 
mistakes being exactly what you just highlighted

0:03:03.560,0:03:12.320
I I got way too many staff on low salaries so the 
quality of the employee was was was not fantastic

0:03:12.320,0:03:19.160
and that caused its own issues uh we got way 
too many customers on low retainers on on small

0:03:19.160,0:03:25.120
budgets so it sounds great to say 230 customers 
not if they're all paying A1 pound each that's

0:03:25.120,0:03:31.040
that's terrible so the numbers and it all sounds 
great on paper there was some issues like the old

0:03:31.040,0:03:36.440
duck you know smooth on the surface and the legs 
were going crazy underneath and if you looked at

0:03:36.440,0:03:45.680
my agency when I sold it we had like I think we 
had like 43 customers uh 45 customers but they

0:03:45.680,0:03:52.600
were enormous yeah and we had you know uh not many 
more staff than than the numbers you read out okay

0:03:52.600,0:03:58.800
there quite a few more but it was a long time on 
big bories and you know it was just working more

0:03:58.800,0:04:05.640
harmoniously um so the things the stress of 
winning the show having the money having Alan

0:04:05.640,0:04:11.760
sugar as your business partner um and the and it 
was the first time I'd ever own and ran a business

0:04:11.760,0:04:15.560
so I'm a business owner for the first time I'm 
business partners with Lord sugar for the first

0:04:15.560,0:04:22.600
time I've never seen 250,000 PS before that's all 
new that's at this point are you getting advice is

0:04:22.600,0:04:26.600
Lord sugar saying listen like you need to scale 
back you you you're growing too quickly the

0:04:26.600,0:04:32.040
retainers are tooo small I mean are you getting 
advice or is it all on you you it's all on me

0:04:32.040,0:04:40.240
100% 100% all on you and he tells you at the very 
start you are going to do this on your own boy I'm

0:04:40.240,0:04:45.920
going to look after the accounting the finance 
you bring to me legal stuff but I don't want to

0:04:45.920,0:04:50.800
know about digital marketing I don't want to know 
about you know this that and the other I'll see

0:04:50.800,0:04:54.680
you once a month at the board meeting but you are 
either going to make it work or you're not going

0:04:54.680,0:05:00.640
to make you're in hot water you've got this public 
following you're now public figure and you better

0:05:00.640,0:05:10.040
succeed or else yeah and it you feel it I felt 
every ounce of the pressure people we got sued

0:05:10.040,0:05:16.000
we had other digital marketing agencies hacking 
our website hacking our server hammering us on

0:05:16.000,0:05:23.320
SEO hammering us giving us negative reviews we 
had I mean it was a lot I was stacking on weight

0:05:23.320,0:05:31.240
um and eating and drinking really unhealthily 
working just hours that were un unbelievable

0:05:31.240,0:05:41.240
for a sustained period it was a hard hard hard 
time um I it was it was thank God I was 24 and

0:05:41.240,0:05:47.120
young and didn't have many obligations because I 
pretty much lived in the office yeah um you have

0:05:47.120,0:05:53.320
to you have to and and I just made it I made what 
it I made the opportunity work but it it took some

0:05:53.320,0:06:02.160
working you see you definitely have to be at that 
right stage in your life I mean yeah I I knew that

0:06:02.160,0:06:10.800
that would have been as a 30y 34 yearold person 
I knew that the outcome would be all of that

0:06:10.800,0:06:18.000
and you would have to literally give everything 
without any scope because it's all on the table

0:06:18.000,0:06:24.880
and it's like all on nothing situation so you you 
have to your life you you you have to you have to

0:06:24.880,0:06:30.960
submit you give your life for that opportunity 
and The Apprentice winners that haven't been as

0:06:30.960,0:06:36.200
um successful with the opportunity that I have 
they haven't and it might be the right decision

0:06:36.200,0:06:40.920
for them in their life and the place they're at 
they haven't given their life to that opportunity

0:06:40.920,0:06:45.840
and it hasn't worked yeah yeah I I could kind 
of tell that that's the direction it's going in

0:06:45.840,0:06:50.920
and when I met Lord sugar in person he reminded 
me of my own dad who has the same work ethic my

0:06:50.920,0:06:57.520
dad's also in business and like crazy strict and 
totally like that you know and I I had already

0:06:57.520,0:07:03.440
had my kids and I was thinking I'm not sure I 
want to necessarily work in that way now I had

0:07:03.440,0:07:08.040
wanted it when I was the age when you went into 
The Apprentice because that's how I was working

0:07:08.040,0:07:12.240
in in what I was doing you know Building Systems 
implementations and things so I would do crazy

0:07:12.240,0:07:18.080
hours and I loved that in the middle of nowhere 
in a in a gambian jungle or whatever you know but

0:07:18.080,0:07:23.320
as your life changes it's like how much are you 
going to give and also how much can you physically

0:07:23.320,0:07:29.320
give so so you're now putting on weight you're now 
you're drinking you're not sort of balancing the

0:07:29.320,0:07:33.640
world work life thing and you're getting stressed 
so what's what's going on now what's happening to

0:07:33.640,0:07:40.920
you and how how are you managing it wasn't it 
wasn't good it it manifested in um me having

0:07:40.920,0:07:48.760
fainting episodes where I would like black out or 
um like just faint um which was new that was that

0:07:48.760,0:07:56.440
something I had seen before um and I was just so 
stressed and I was under so much uh pressure uh

0:07:56.440,0:08:04.880
from myself from the media from the board of 
my company um and it was it was challenging

0:08:04.880,0:08:08.680
there's no doubt about it and that's what I say 
to people who who message me and stuff they're

0:08:08.680,0:08:13.760
about starting a business okay you're not going to 
be maybe have the same public profile I have and

0:08:13.760,0:08:19.680
maybe Alan Sugar's not your business partner but 
it's going to be tough the first 12 to 18 months

0:08:19.680,0:08:27.440
of a startup business is Relentless you need to 
live and breathe it and uh really ride the ups

0:08:27.440,0:08:32.760
and downs for it to get to where needs to go and 
look later in my career it was not like that at

0:08:32.760,0:08:41.400
all but certainly for the first three years it was 
it was pretty rough yeah okay but then you kind of

0:08:41.400,0:08:50.400
work through that somehow and then you sell the 
business for 10 million so why why did you sell

0:08:50.400,0:08:58.000
Mark uh why did I sell well first of all I got 
an incredible offer um to to for my company to

0:08:58.000,0:09:03.760
be sold the average digital marketing agen in the 
UK sells for two to three times ebit D we sold for

0:09:03.760,0:09:10.280
N9 and a half times e ebit d so that's a pretty 
good offer uh the other the other side of that

0:09:10.280,0:09:14.960
coin is um I wanted to be spending more time in 
Australia which is where I'm doing this from I'd

0:09:14.960,0:09:23.760
missed every friends's wedding funerals birthdays 
uh births of children I'd missed everything and I

0:09:23.760,0:09:28.880
was starting to be forgotten amongst my friends 
and family at at home I'd sacrificed 12 years of

0:09:28.880,0:09:35.000
my life to building up my career and and and all 
of that good stuff so I felt it was time to spend

0:09:35.000,0:09:40.720
more time um with the people that mattered most 
to me so the offer came at a good time and the

0:09:40.720,0:09:47.040
other businesses I own and manage are either in 
Australia or can be done um you know Visa V over

0:09:47.040,0:09:52.800
here so um that that that's what led to that 
decision so a bit of work life balance which

0:09:52.800,0:09:59.320
we'll get to in a second so um your work ethic 
like from the email correspondents that we've had

0:10:00.280,0:10:05.440
you know LinkedIn whatever you're very good at 
responding to emails I quite like that you know

0:10:05.440,0:10:14.320
you're very professional is that super important 
to you yeah yeah my email inbox uh and all my

0:10:14.320,0:10:22.680
inboxes are U meticulously organized I respond 
to everything within within the day I receive it

0:10:22.680,0:10:28.200
um everything I'll have we we have the Sundance 
rule in my my offices where anything that comes

0:10:28.200,0:10:34.840
in the day we respond to to before we before we 
leave um because that is part of the service you

0:10:34.840,0:10:39.880
get from working with me at any level I answer my 
phone quickly and professionally I write back to

0:10:39.880,0:10:44.880
you quickly and professionally and I'm honest 
with you and that's that's a guarantee that I

0:10:44.880,0:10:50.560
give the people that I that I work with and even 
organizing this podcast or anything that I do is

0:10:50.560,0:10:56.200
we do it properly we do it fast we do it organized 
and we we do it that way and where where does that

0:10:56.200,0:11:04.960
come from does that from from did Lord rub off on 
you in that way is he similar oh gosh he he's he's

0:11:04.960,0:11:11.120
he's probably a bit more than me but um probably 
my dad my my dad always had a theory you know how

0:11:11.120,0:11:16.760
you do anything is how you do everything whether 
you're washing a mug whether you're cleaning your

0:11:16.760,0:11:22.800
car he always said you can tell a good employee 
from how they keep their car you can tell a

0:11:22.800,0:11:27.480
employee from how they keep maintain their house 
you know all of this stuff and and and Lord sugar

0:11:27.480,0:11:34.640
was exactly the same he would comment to me on how 
I was dressed how I was shaved uh you know stuff

0:11:34.640,0:11:42.040
that maybe you shouldn't do these days let's say 
he doesn't uh give give a stuff about that no his

0:11:42.040,0:11:50.160
brand of mentoring is um direct old school let's 
call it old school and direct but my dad is a hard

0:11:50.160,0:11:56.680
bastard he is a hard hard bastard so I grew up 
in a household with a with a tough dad and then I

0:11:56.680,0:12:04.040
went into business with a tough guy and I Lov look 
getting sworn at to me is it's just a Monday let's

0:12:04.040,0:12:08.880
rock and roll some people get really offended 
by that and they want to you know take it to the

0:12:08.880,0:12:14.600
employment tribunal or have a winge that's I love 
that stuff that brand of mentoring works for me

0:12:14.600,0:12:20.720
it doesn't work for everybody you know I I got a 
business partner that was right for me believes in

0:12:20.720,0:12:28.880
competition believes in working hard believes in 
tough love uh and it works for me right so do you

0:12:28.880,0:12:38.000
ever ghost people not I will tell them I'm going 
to ghost them I find ghosting so rude it's so I

0:12:38.000,0:12:43.480
don't get that ghosting thing I don't get it um 
there's only I can only think of one or two people

0:12:43.480,0:12:49.560
I've ever ghosted because I don't think they're 
cognitively got all the stuff going on upstairs um

0:12:49.560,0:12:54.360
but most people I'll say look I'm not interested 
in what you're selling here or what you're doing

0:12:54.360,0:12:59.480
here or your podcast is a load of Tosh I'm not 
interested and then they'll write back and say

0:12:59.480,0:13:05.880
I told you I'm not interested don't write to me 
again but so with me um some of my ex-girlfriends

0:13:05.880,0:13:11.360
will might attest to this you always know where 
you're at you'll always know if you can send

0:13:11.360,0:13:16.960
another message or not yeah I love that and I love 
you know in this podcast your honesty is coming

0:13:16.960,0:13:22.000
across as well you're talking about you know those 
numbers that that I read out you know that are on

0:13:22.000,0:13:27.360
from the different magazine articles so like well 
that's a bit inflated or that wasn't a good number

0:13:27.360,0:13:31.880
because of you know you are super honon that 
comes across and it's life is too short right

0:13:31.880,0:13:36.040
especially with things like partners and that why 
would you why would you stay in a relationship

0:13:36.040,0:13:41.640
with someone when you're not like feeling it why 
can't you just have the courage to tell them you

0:13:41.640,0:13:47.200
know to their face like listen like it's you know 
I don't I don't get why people don't do that but

0:13:47.200,0:13:53.840
yeah I I I I don't I don't understand it and um 
I think it better you know I used to be the best

0:13:53.840,0:14:01.120
uh bullshitter in the game when I was younger uh 
and as I've gotten older and more um refined more

0:14:01.120,0:14:07.640
mature uh more professional I've just learned that 
if telling the truth and being direct with people

0:14:07.640,0:14:13.800
and being honest with people is is the best policy 
it gets me the best results in business it gets me

0:14:13.800,0:14:21.440
the best results in my personal life um and do you 
know the people left in my life after I'm direct

0:14:21.440,0:14:27.160
with them are the ones I enjoy being with anyway 
so it's the results great yeah they've accepted

0:14:27.160,0:14:32.160
you for who you are and they love you for that 
so that's that's amazing right so let's go to

0:14:32.160,0:14:39.760
where you are now you're in property I mean that's 
that's where you want to be right that's um that's

0:14:39.760,0:14:45.400
a sweet spot I would say well Lord sugar uh used 
to say to me pretty much at every board meeting

0:14:45.400,0:14:55.480
Mark we do uh business for fun and property to 
make money and uh I agree um it's it's I love it

0:14:55.480,0:15:03.440
um I love it because it's challenging but it's fun 
I love it cuz I'm good at it um and it's different

0:15:03.440,0:15:09.080
and I can do it anywhere in the world so there's 
there's so many elements to it that I'm working

0:15:09.080,0:15:14.320
um with and I have lots of new stuff happen every 
week and that that keeps me interested but it is

0:15:14.320,0:15:19.040
it is good for the back pocket as well if you 
get it right if you get if you get it right it

0:15:19.040,0:15:23.840
can work so I've just I'm starting a new property 
company in New Zealand at the moment I'm doing one

0:15:23.840,0:15:31.560
in Australia at the moment I've got one in the UK 
that's that's doing very well um so it keeps me

0:15:31.560,0:15:37.480
interested and it's a good place to you know hone 
the stuff that I learned from Lord sugar who's a

0:15:37.480,0:15:44.600
massive property Tycoon um if you know I might as 
well uh if I've seen success go and have a bit of

0:15:44.600,0:15:53.600
that myself okay so are you happy oh definitely 
yeah and what's the best thing about your life

0:15:53.600,0:16:01.480
right now I've set my life up I've designed my my 
life is by Design uh I live in a house on a lake

0:16:01.480,0:16:11.640
in Australia which only has 20 plus Degree Days uh 
I have uh a fantastic uh fiance who I'm about to

0:16:11.640,0:16:19.720
marry I have an amazing son who uh is very healthy 
and and doing developing well and I have an office

0:16:19.720,0:16:26.160
down the road which is amazing um I have a great 
office I have businesses where I go to the board

0:16:26.160,0:16:30.600
meetings I drive to the meetings and I enjoy the 
people I'm working with and that's not always been

0:16:30.600,0:16:37.040
the case so I've set up my life where I love my 
house I go to a gym I enjoy an office I enjoy so

0:16:37.040,0:16:48.080
I'm in this phase of my life of doing hard stuff 
but that I enjoy and um that makes me happy yeah

0:16:48.080,0:16:53.120
okay so in terms of your work life balance I 
mean are you doing anything to do with like

0:16:53.120,0:16:58.840
mindfulness or journaling or anything like that 
for your mind and you mentioned working out so

0:16:59.840,0:17:06.600
how was that balance going yeah I mean I try to 
meditate every day um for 15 minutes at the end

0:17:06.600,0:17:14.040
of every single day um I'm a bit of a Nutter 
about self-help stuff um I'm always listening

0:17:14.040,0:17:21.280
to self-help books and uh different podcasts 
and things about improving my health um and

0:17:21.280,0:17:29.000
and wellness so I have two coaches that I pay for 
coaching a nutritionist um and um one that I work

0:17:29.000,0:17:33.640
with like a personal trainer type thing but it's 
like an exercise physiology because I have some

0:17:33.640,0:17:39.760
issues in my back so um I believe because people 
pay me to coach them about business why would I

0:17:39.760,0:17:46.000
not believe in paying people for their expertise 
to help me in other areas I need in my life so

0:17:46.000,0:17:51.360
I'm working really hard on my on my health at the 
moment um to complement the other stuff that I'm

0:17:51.360,0:17:56.320
doing in my businesses I love that I love the 
fact that you say you engineer your life it's

0:17:56.320,0:18:01.000
like drawing your ideal life and then you go for 
it I love that I love it right we're now going

0:18:01.000,0:18:08.000
to move on to your LinkedIn posts okay so I'll 
start with this one this is what you're saying

0:18:08.000,0:18:13.760
I've always been different whenever I've tried 
to cover that up and act more normal I found

0:18:13.760,0:18:25.480
less success what do you mean by that um I I I'll 
give you a reference to The Apprentice actually

0:18:25.480,0:18:32.200
the candidates that uh watch the previous series 
before they go on the series is before them and

0:18:32.200,0:18:38.800
they try and act like or take on the personality 
of a contestant that's been in years past always

0:18:38.800,0:18:44.520
fail because you cannot fake being someone 
you're not for 12 weeks impossible situation

0:18:44.520,0:18:51.320
it's too tiring yeah you you can be you and that's 
either going to be accepted by Lord sugar and the

0:18:51.320,0:18:57.800
public or it's not but at least you're going to be 
realistic and go on to be successful in whatever

0:18:57.800,0:19:06.760
your realm of life is that is the same I've had 
times in my life where I have felt the need to

0:19:06.760,0:19:14.480
act differently against my my will or against 
who my my nature is or my ethics and it's always

0:19:14.480,0:19:23.320
turned out badly differently how to fit in maybe 
you know to fit in at school or to fit in to try

0:19:23.320,0:19:31.680
and uh date a girl or to get a job or to work in 
a team or an organization and I've always done it

0:19:31.680,0:19:38.640
to try and get some form of success or a goal and 
it's I've either got it and it's not felt right

0:19:38.640,0:19:46.440
or I've either not got it and burn crashed and 
burned miserably and it's I've Trace that back

0:19:46.440,0:19:54.840
like an air crash investigation to always acting 
not in a reflection of who I really am not being

0:19:54.840,0:20:02.680
who I am at my core value and whenever I've done 
that I've failed so my theory is if you are just

0:20:02.680,0:20:09.680
you we're all weird we're all messed up let's just 
agree to that and be who you are and I agree that

0:20:09.680,0:20:14.960
sometimes people will come into my life hate who 
I am and they leave and sometimes I'll come in

0:20:14.960,0:20:20.080
and love who I am and stay and that's all fine 
and if you just do that you're going to have

0:20:20.080,0:20:24.640
better people around you you're going to get into 
the opportunities that are right for you you're

0:20:24.640,0:20:29.280
not going to get into the ones that are wrong for 
you and the net positive of that is going to be a

0:20:29.280,0:20:34.800
better life yeah cuz if you look at someone like 
Lord sugar as well he's completely and utterly

0:20:34.800,0:20:41.520
unashamedly and unapologetically himself isn't 
he yes let's let's be clear about and like your

0:20:41.520,0:20:47.760
dad and my dad you know it's people with strong 
personalities that don't apologize for who they

0:20:47.760,0:20:54.320
are they're not and they they tend to live the 
best lives I to I need to be honest with the

0:20:54.320,0:21:00.280
more you Flex to other people's will you know Lord 
sugar probably always gets to go and eat where he

0:21:00.280,0:21:05.040
wants to eat because not too many people are going 
to argue with he he's picking that restaurant you

0:21:05.040,0:21:10.800
know I've Got Friends where I know when I'm 
out with them they've got very strong Wills

0:21:10.800,0:21:15.880
they picked the restaurant they picked the bottle 
of wine you know they just get what they want in

0:21:15.880,0:21:22.280
life and that they seem pretty happy when I saw 
my husband at work um I mean I was on holiday at

0:21:22.280,0:21:26.000
the time and he joined the company while I was 
on holiday and he walked into the office I was

0:21:26.000,0:21:30.320
like I'm definitely going to marry him and then 
the night yeah yeah the next night we went went

0:21:30.320,0:21:35.360
out you know I just was like you know do you want 
to have kids one day and d d he was like yes and

0:21:35.360,0:21:38.960
then I went home to my friends I was like I'm 
gonna marry him and that's exactly what I did

0:21:38.960,0:21:46.000
and I'm very happy you know because if you do what 
you want to do in life and you you know you like

0:21:46.000,0:21:51.960
you're saying Mark like you engineer your life 
then you can you have to be happy because you're

0:21:51.960,0:21:59.960
doing what you want so the outcome is going to be 
more in your favor yeah and and I don't understand

0:21:59.960,0:22:07.040
I cannot comprehend people who you see them like 
I've got some some family members like this who

0:22:07.040,0:22:12.480
say you know oh you know I think about I'm not 
so unhappy in my career I'm so unhappy in my life

0:22:12.480,0:22:17.760
I'm so unhappy I'm so unhappy and I just think 
you mustn't be that unhappy because why would

0:22:17.760,0:22:24.400
you just not change it it's so easy to there's 
so many companies to work for there's so many

0:22:24.400,0:22:30.560
gyms to go and improve your like there is so many 
ways to be not where you are but you just mustn't

0:22:30.560,0:22:37.040
be uncomfortable enough because you I literally 
I call it with my partner we call it braining it

0:22:37.040,0:22:45.320
out we brain out every element of our house of our 
life of you know I want every bit of my house and

0:22:45.320,0:22:51.120
life and business thought about it brained out I 
want to just I want to design it so and people say

0:22:51.120,0:22:58.720
wow this is amazing it's on purposely amazing yeah 
but some people are also on purposely they have

0:22:58.720,0:23:04.040
victim mentality because they kind of like and 
that sounds really horrible to say but I have

0:23:04.040,0:23:09.600
seen it in people where they like the sort of the 
being miserable because they get attention from it

0:23:09.600,0:23:15.000
and every go oh no and you know you can do this 
and they get a lot of feedback and in a way that

0:23:15.000,0:23:20.120
feedback is rewarding which which sounds horrible 
but there are some people like and you're right

0:23:20.120,0:23:26.800
they obviously don't like it dislike it enough 
to change um but no one's coming to change their

0:23:26.800,0:23:33.520
life like no one's going to magically wand them 
out of that situation except for them and a lot

0:23:33.520,0:23:38.320
of the time it it it doesn't change I I'll give 
you another example I'm getting married in the go

0:23:38.320,0:23:44.040
Coast in December and we sent congratulations 
thank you thank you and obviously a lot of my

0:23:44.040,0:23:48.920
friends live in the UK and my partner's from 
Finland and um so there's a lot of invitations

0:23:48.920,0:23:54.960
G out across the world and some people have said 
to my to my partner and I it's I wish you would

0:23:54.960,0:24:01.320
hot the wedding until we can afford to come 
for the ticket or whatever you know some close

0:24:01.320,0:24:07.200
members of family the issue is which I said to my 
partner they'll never be able to afford to come

0:24:07.200,0:24:14.080
in my experience poor people are always poor and 
rich people are always Rich because it's in here

0:24:14.080,0:24:20.080
nothing to do with what's in your bank account 
it's a way of thinking and uh once you change that

0:24:20.080,0:24:26.600
way of thinking everything else changes and it's 
that's the hardest bit of the process to change

0:24:26.600,0:24:34.800
in most people yeah that's a very interesting one 
okay so another LinkedIn post go for it you hit

0:24:34.800,0:24:43.600
me with them okay if you don't have haters trolls 
and enemies you aren't doing anything worthwhile

0:24:43.600,0:24:53.520
really in my experience there is a direct the more 
people that have trolled my posts uh attacked me

0:24:53.520,0:25:00.440
on Google reviews on LinkedIn on uh Twitter and 
all of these various places there has always been

0:25:00.440,0:25:08.600
a direct correlation between the better I'm doing 
and the more haters I have right so when I was

0:25:08.600,0:25:15.360
broke flat broke as a pancake working at a steak 
restaurant sleeping on the floor I had no haters

0:25:15.360,0:25:21.520
I had no trolls I couldn't get any likes on my 
Facebook posts then I won The Apprentice and I

0:25:21.520,0:25:26.240
had hundreds of thousands of followers and all 
of a sudden people were saying he looks funny

0:25:26.240,0:25:30.960
he speaks funny he doesn't deserve to when I 
know more about digital marketing than me hang

0:25:30.960,0:25:37.520
on that person doesn't know me and all that had 
had changed was I was doing better I was doing

0:25:37.520,0:25:42.080
something worth doing I was doing other people I 
was doing something that other people were jealous

0:25:42.080,0:25:48.120
of and that made them dislike me because I was 
being successful at it and I found whenever your

0:25:48.120,0:25:54.040
business is doing better you're more healthy 
you're earning more you're doing better people

0:25:54.040,0:26:02.720
start to say things about you and comes from a 
place of jealousy in their own circumstances get

0:26:02.720,0:26:10.200
I get some pretty Savage stuff um mainly about 
just you know I don't know what I'm talking

0:26:10.200,0:26:17.320
about I've only been successful because I was in 
business with alen sugar um uh all of that sort of

0:26:17.320,0:26:24.360
stuff you know I get all of that you know go kill 
yourself and all of that sort of stuff but it's

0:26:24.360,0:26:30.760
it is water off off a duck's back and um sometimes 
I'm going to be completely honest with you I'm at

0:26:30.760,0:26:38.920
a place in my life now where I'm so content with 
it sometimes I do posts just to upset the um the

0:26:38.920,0:26:46.400
trolls because it amuses me okay I've got one of 
those I've got one this must be one of them this

0:26:46.400,0:26:54.240
is you responding to an article okay headlined how 
to get 55 days off this year while only just using

0:26:54.240,0:27:03.240
25 days annual leave Mark replies what a time to 
be alive this is the new culture that goes hand

0:27:03.240,0:27:11.880
in hand with nonsense like a 4-day working week 
and working from home holy guacamole I mean this

0:27:11.880,0:27:18.360
there's a lot in this post okay are you bringing 
this up because you don't agree with my my my

0:27:18.360,0:27:26.560
viewpoints and and and they they've upset yourself 
um I'm bringing it up for two reasons I can see

0:27:26.560,0:27:32.520
that the response from the public public was 
meaningful like there there was a response people

0:27:32.520,0:27:41.320
had a lot to say um I also bringing it up because 
I guess the way it's worded it's definitely trying

0:27:41.320,0:27:46.800
to annoy some people because obviously it's 
very generalized and you you can't possibly

0:27:46.800,0:27:51.840
make a statement like working from home isn't 
good at all because like you know people work

0:27:51.840,0:27:56.560
from home and very effectively obviously there's 
people that work from home and they work from home

0:27:56.560,0:28:03.800
like we know we know so it's a very general thing 
but um it was just one of those Mark moments I

0:28:03.800,0:28:09.680
think where I'm not sure you is that a windup or 
do you actually think this I intentionally word

0:28:09.680,0:28:16.560
some things to create conflict because the the 
best way to increase social media visibility is

0:28:16.560,0:28:24.440
engagement so it is a windup so it's not up well 
let me let me finish by saying I completely stand

0:28:24.440,0:28:29.440
by that post and I agree with all of the things 
that I said and and let's break it down one at a

0:28:29.440,0:28:36.880
time I don't I fundamentally at my core believe 
a 4-day work week will be a disastrous situation

0:28:36.880,0:28:42.720
if big companies enter into it yeah I believe 
that working from home full-time working from

0:28:42.720,0:28:48.160
home kills the culture of a company and it's hard 
to build a brand and a company culture and retain

0:28:48.160,0:28:57.080
staff and un for them to understand the values of 
a company that they don't go into but I need a way

0:28:57.080,0:29:05.200
of communicating with people who don't really want 
to hear me out so I sometimes go for the jugular

0:29:05.200,0:29:12.080
on one liners that I know will really upset them 
because if you're sitting at home in your pajamas

0:29:12.080,0:29:17.280
taking the biscuit getting a full salary and 
you you're one of the people who really take the

0:29:17.280,0:29:24.320
Mickey and you see my post you are going to be up 
you're going to be fearful that your way of living

0:29:24.320,0:29:34.640
is going to leave uh and so they come hard in the 
paint at me and I I absolutely love it yeah I mean

0:29:34.640,0:29:39.520
I suppose it does depend on the type of business I 
mean I work with teams that you know they just do

0:29:39.520,0:29:46.960
work from home but my word do they do a brilliant 
job because for those guys like a designer that's

0:29:46.960,0:29:53.480
doing a specific logo or some sort of you know 
print that you're doing and either they deliver

0:29:53.480,0:29:58.320
it or they don't I couldn't care less what pajamas 
they're wearing or what biscuit they eating it I

0:29:58.320,0:30:03.000
literally don't care what time I do what I care 
about is what ends up in my inbox is something

0:30:03.000,0:30:07.560
that I like and like you've done a good job and 
it better be on time it better be on time and

0:30:07.560,0:30:12.360
also you better respond you know when I send 
that text reply like that efficiency like you

0:30:12.360,0:30:17.160
can be on the moon I couldn't care less as long 
as it comes in but I obviously get your point

0:30:17.160,0:30:21.640
that there's some businesses where you've got 
to have that brainstorming session and you need

0:30:21.640,0:30:29.320
that culture I completely understand so that's 
why it depends definitely I for for me the way

0:30:29.320,0:30:36.920
you build a company is by having a good brand a 
good culture and good values it's very hard to

0:30:36.920,0:30:45.600
instill a culture values and all of that good 
stuff if you never see the person uh that you

0:30:45.600,0:30:52.560
you know that you're working with and I think my 
concern is people can do what they want no one's

0:30:52.560,0:30:58.120
waiting for Mark Wright to tell them what to do 
let's be completely honest but with the develop

0:30:58.120,0:31:05.520
M of artificial intelligence and the ability now 
out of places like India the Philippines and all

0:31:05.520,0:31:13.720
of these places the US the UK Australia they need 
to be very careful what you wish for you might

0:31:13.720,0:31:19.520
wish for a four-day working week it won't be long 
before you have a zero day working week because Ai

0:31:19.520,0:31:26.760
and the Philippines are willing to do your work 
for you and that's I'm you might hate me these

0:31:26.760,0:31:34.600
folks out there but I'm on your team I'm trying 
to foresee what is coming and make sure that we

0:31:34.600,0:31:41.080
all have jobs and money for the future yeah I I'm 
I'm totally with you on the four- day working week

0:31:41.080,0:31:46.680
I mean that's nonsense I agree about that that's 
silly you've got to just at least work your five

0:31:46.680,0:31:53.720
working days please every everyone it's not that 
hard if you if you're upset about working five

0:31:53.720,0:31:59.120
days a week you need to change jobs you're in the 
wrong profession you're in wrong career because I

0:31:59.120,0:32:05.080
love I want to work I race to the office on Monday 
I can't get there quick enough because I love I

0:32:05.080,0:32:12.880
love it if you're not doing that change jobs this 
brings me on to a very very very controversial one

0:32:12.880,0:32:21.120
where you say you don't understand businesses 
that close between Christmas and New Year's Eve

0:32:21.120,0:32:31.240
and that you sell more when others are closed 
yeah uh it's just that really upset the uh the

0:32:31.240,0:32:39.000
wokies that one that run really got that Lit the 
touch fire on the um on on the people in the cheap

0:32:39.000,0:32:49.360
seats and the reason basically I um I went to 
do I was doing something I don't know sending

0:32:49.360,0:32:54.200
oh was moving house and I was trying to get some 
quotes for some stuff for the house and everyone

0:32:54.200,0:33:02.960
I removal company internet this thing this thing 
we're closed from the 20th of December till the

0:33:02.960,0:33:13.280
17th of January what oh so I can't have internet 
until then or I can't remove my stuff and whatever

0:33:13.280,0:33:20.640
whatever whatever now and people were like oh yeah 
good luck working on your deathbed good luck you

0:33:20.640,0:33:25.320
know blah blah blah blah blah listen people need a 
break people need to go on holidays people need a

0:33:25.320,0:33:30.720
weekend one of the best pieces of business advice 
I ever forgot maybe the best was from Alan sugar

0:33:30.720,0:33:36.640
that he's never worked a weekend he finishes at 
5:00 on a Friday he doesn't start again till 9:00

0:33:36.640,0:33:44.400
on Monday I was not saying don't have a break I 
was saying that organizations should be able to

0:33:44.400,0:33:53.080
take orders process customers and still trade to 
help people and and create Revenue through holiday

0:33:53.080,0:33:59.400
periods now there is much more than there's 52 
weeks in a year the week between Christmas and New

0:33:59.400,0:34:05.600
Year is one week There's still 51 other weeks you 
can go on holidays or some staff could still work

0:34:05.600,0:34:12.080
that week and go on a holiday at different time 
my companies do it we do record trade in those

0:34:12.080,0:34:16.720
times maybe there's something that when other 
people are closed people go to the you know if

0:34:16.720,0:34:21.240
there's all the cafes are closed and there's 
one who's open who's selling all the coffees

0:34:21.240,0:34:27.880
sometimes just being the only game in town is a is 
a pretty powerful sales strategy okay again you've

0:34:27.880,0:34:31.960
you've explained it so the controversy was there 
on purpose because you're not saying don't go on

0:34:31.960,0:34:36.360
holiday over Christmas because obviously parents 
you know you've got to go when your kids have a

0:34:36.360,0:34:39.560
holiday they've got a break which is normally over 
the Christmas period you're going to go with your

0:34:39.560,0:34:44.840
son you're gonna you know you want to that that 
family time is really important and it normally

0:34:44.840,0:34:50.240
comes around that period but you're not saying 
don't do that you're just saying keep business

0:34:50.240,0:34:54.360
operating especially if it's critical business 
I mean obviously hospitals and all that you know

0:34:54.360,0:35:00.080
that's a no-brainer but like you're not saying 
just work you know work over Christmas you're

0:35:00.080,0:35:04.320
just saying Christmas is my favorite time of 
the year it's my favorite day of of the year

0:35:04.320,0:35:09.840
it's my I love it I absolutely love it I love 
sitting at the Christmas table with my family

0:35:09.840,0:35:16.720
and my friends and it's it's the most beautiful 
sacred time in my in some of my life is being at

0:35:16.720,0:35:23.280
the Christmas table but that doesn't mean my 
business is shut down that's all I'm saying

0:35:23.280,0:35:27.640
and uh and this is what I'm saying business 
isn't for everyone I think what I'm saying

0:35:28.480,0:35:33.600
is the best business advice I can give you it 
might sound uncomfortable maybe you your business

0:35:33.600,0:35:40.600
doesn't want to open then but my businesses do and 
I still enjoy Christmas but I'm just saying spread

0:35:40.600,0:35:48.400
it out have C you might have Muslim employees that 
work that Christmas period and you give them that

0:35:48.400,0:35:54.800
Christians that time off and you work over Eed 
or what what whatever it is exactly yes so you be

0:35:54.800,0:35:59.600
more flexible you see Mark which is what I what I 
wanted you to explain about your post because that

0:35:59.600,0:36:04.760
that makes more sense to me than what you posted 
because obviously I agree with that but I wouldn't

0:36:04.760,0:36:09.720
agree with the just flat posts which says you know 
just basically work over Christmas go if you go

0:36:09.720,0:36:14.320
like Mark you as well forget your kid go work over 
Christmas but obviously these posts are designed

0:36:14.320,0:36:21.840
for um yeah no they they're interesting here 
we are talking about them and uh I get so many

0:36:21.840,0:36:27.560
uh messages and and stuff but look my this is my 
true beliefs and when you ask me to explain them

0:36:28.120,0:36:33.160
tell me if you disagree yeah no I I I actually 
agree with that now that you've explained it I

0:36:33.160,0:36:40.960
agree I agree with everything pretty much that 
you've said so maybe maybe accept this one this

0:36:40.960,0:36:49.000
is the one post it's the last LinkedIn post um all 
right you talk about the fact that you have never

0:36:49.000,0:37:01.200
met a business person a good business person that 
isn't ruthless that triggers some uh emotion in

0:37:01.200,0:37:09.240
me um obviously I come from entrepreneurship it's 
like it's been in the family like I've I've grown

0:37:09.240,0:37:16.480
up living and breathing everything that business 
is you know from the ground up all that Journey

0:37:16.480,0:37:24.560
up and down all of it um there is something about 
the ruthlessness in business that I have a like

0:37:24.560,0:37:33.560
a problem with you know um I had an exboyfriend 
once that I wonder if he's listening he lied on

0:37:33.560,0:37:38.640
his application to go to to do an MBA you know 
these Business Schools they're very tough you

0:37:38.640,0:37:44.840
know the application process and he lied that 
English you know wasn't his first language um

0:37:44.840,0:37:52.160
so he sort of you know manipulated the the whole 
thing about his mom and so on for this application

0:37:52.160,0:37:57.440
and and got in and would write the exam that's 
easier in English and that really bothered me

0:37:58.040,0:38:05.480
because I was like well that's dishonest you've 
you don't really deserve to be in that position

0:38:05.480,0:38:11.280
you've cheated and you know what he said to me 
he goes you know people like me are going to get

0:38:11.280,0:38:19.640
ahead in life because I I know how to play the 
system I know I'm ruthless I you know because

0:38:19.640,0:38:25.600
there are people out there that will sell their 
kidney to get ahead in business and he was sort

0:38:25.600,0:38:32.000
of saying that to me and never have I ever been 
so put off a man in my life you know human like I

0:38:32.000,0:38:39.840
couldn't understand you know I don't relate that 
I think you did well making him an ex-boyfriend

0:38:39.840,0:38:47.520
let's let's uh say that um and the the answer 
is what he was doing was not ruthlessness it was

0:38:47.520,0:38:57.440
dishonesty um and when I talk about ruthlessness 
I mean resilience and I mean toughness um

0:38:59.080,0:39:05.440
every successful business leader I've worked 
with or ever met speaking doing podcasts on

0:39:05.440,0:39:12.240
my journey across board room tables to be 
successful you need a level of resilience

0:39:12.240,0:39:19.920
and toughness and decision-making ability that 
is I deem ruthless and it comes down to what the

0:39:19.920,0:39:28.800
definition of Ruthless actually means and it is 
not being dishonest it is not taking advantage of

0:39:28.800,0:39:37.120
people it is not doing anything at all costs it's 
making the tough decisions at the right times and

0:39:37.120,0:39:45.440
doing what needs to be done and if you do it with 
a resilience and an honesty and an Integrity that

0:39:45.440,0:39:50.880
is ruthlessness that makes you successful and 
I truly believe you can't be successful without

0:39:50.880,0:39:57.200
that right okay so let's unpack the definition 
of ruthlessness which is actually according to

0:39:57.200,0:40:05.920
the Oxford dictionary having or showing no pity 
or compassion for others well then then then I

0:40:05.920,0:40:12.520
I've used the wrong word I think you've used the 
wrong word I think you used the wrong word I if I

0:40:12.520,0:40:19.840
was looking for one word it's toughness toughness 
is ruthlessness sounds better than toughness right

0:40:19.840,0:40:28.800
it does it sounds sounds more robust yeah uh so 
I I don't mean at all cost costs absolutely not

0:40:28.800,0:40:34.200
because um you you could go and set up a Ponzi 
scheme and just steal money if you wanted to be

0:40:34.200,0:40:40.040
successful make money that but that to me is 
not successful that that's that's just making

0:40:40.040,0:40:45.440
money at at any cost and that's ruthlessness and 
that you know that that's not the right way to go

0:40:45.440,0:40:49.960
about it yeah I think I'm be I'm being a little 
bit tough on you there because of you know I've

0:40:49.960,0:40:55.280
read ahead of this I was doing research on this 
and especially this post and I actually came

0:40:55.280,0:41:01.080
across so many articles you know business articles 
you know the entrepreneur there that credible you

0:41:01.080,0:41:06.840
know journalists writing about ruthlessness in 
business but in a very very positive way so it's

0:41:06.840,0:41:14.360
not like it's un unheard of and unusual for you 
to say that I will just say um when you talk about

0:41:14.360,0:41:22.400
ruthless business people I would consider one of 
those to be Steve Jobs you know I think the way

0:41:22.400,0:41:29.400
that he operated was a little bit ruthless not 
just with the people his team like come on why

0:41:29.400,0:41:33.360
aren't you working later hours let's go let's go 
we need to get the product out I don't care that

0:41:33.360,0:41:38.400
you haven't eaten I don't care that it's 3:00 
in the morning you got to work and he was also

0:41:38.400,0:41:45.800
incredibly ruthless with himself he had no pity or 
compassion with the fact that maybe he didn't eat

0:41:45.800,0:41:49.960
breakfast he's been in the same clothes for three 
days that these are real stories he would not

0:41:49.960,0:41:55.640
even get changed sometimes because why why would 
you there's no time you have to work so he was

0:41:55.640,0:42:01.560
incredibly ruthless and I feel like that there's 
going to be a price right and he paid I think with

0:42:01.560,0:42:10.360
his life he gave his absolute health for this 
I agree you know I agree I love Steve Jobs um

0:42:10.360,0:42:17.760
for for for for multiple reasons but he was he was 
ruthless in probably every sense of uh the word um

0:42:17.760,0:42:22.200
you know if you even look at the way what he how 
he was with his daughter and all of that sort of

0:42:22.200,0:42:29.440
stuff he he really he really was ruthless um but 
he was a incredible businessman if you read the

0:42:29.440,0:42:37.640
Glass Door reviews for Elon musk's company he is a 
ruthless guy he is there is no doubt about the way

0:42:37.640,0:42:44.920
he operates he's he's a ruthless guy but coming 
back from that I believe you have to be tough

0:42:44.920,0:42:50.040
and resilient to be successful in business I I've 
just seen too many people there's too much that

0:42:50.040,0:42:57.480
happens to you on a weekly basis for if you cannot 
handle pressure stress to to make it it's just too

0:42:57.480,0:43:05.800
difficult and um that's what I was trying to get 
across in that post yeah um well I think there

0:43:05.800,0:43:11.320
was one thing he said as well which I quite liked 
because obviously I walked off The Apprentice I it

0:43:11.320,0:43:16.760
wasn't for me so I I will always do what's right 
for me and maybe there's a ruthlessness about me

0:43:16.760,0:43:20.360
because it's like oh you took other people's place 
and someone else could have something something

0:43:20.360,0:43:26.520
but then the ruthless side of me is like well hang 
on a minute I got myself in I will get myself out

0:43:26.520,0:43:30.800
if that's what I feels right for me no one is 
going to tell me what I'm like a cat you can't

0:43:30.800,0:43:35.840
make me do anything I don't want to do like there 
is no way on God's Earth I'm going to do something

0:43:35.840,0:43:42.440
I don't want to do um and he was the same in the 
sense that he was like if you w to get out of

0:43:42.440,0:43:48.200
something if something isn't working if it's not 
aligned with your your deep values then you've

0:43:48.200,0:43:57.520
got to change course like in that way I agreed but 
I can tell in two minutes of meeting you on this

0:43:57.520,0:44:03.440
podcast tonight you you are what I would call 
a ruthless tough person without a shadow of a

0:44:03.440,0:44:10.760
doubt I know that you are a certain type of person 
that can handle pressure that can handle stress

0:44:10.760,0:44:16.840
that can handle tough conversations I know that 
straight away by talk by talking to you in in in

0:44:16.840,0:44:23.200
two minutes and my friends have this like joke 
about me they call me Houdini because as soon as

0:44:23.200,0:44:29.080
I'm in a situation where I don't want to be there 
a meeting a night out a dinner I don't even say

0:44:29.080,0:44:36.160
goodbye to people I'm just not there anymore and 
um and and and like you with The Apprentice or or

0:44:36.160,0:44:41.200
or or or anything as soon as I'm in a situation 
I think this isn't for me I'm off I'm out I'm out

0:44:41.200,0:44:46.320
the door it's just a waste of time isn't it Mark 
I've taken up a lot of your time I've got three

0:44:46.320,0:44:51.440
last very quick questions and this has come from 
the public so I've just chosen the top three um I

0:44:51.440,0:44:56.720
said I'm interviewing you let's see what have you 
guys got so first one have this is really funny

0:44:56.720,0:45:05.800
have people ever got you confused with Mark Wright 
from Twi the only way is I know know yeah I mean

0:45:05.800,0:45:12.720
this is probably the number one thing I get asked 
now and um all the all of the time we get confused

0:45:12.720,0:45:19.840
I get letters for him I get emails from him I get 
social media DMS from people that certainly think

0:45:19.840,0:45:27.240
I'm him uh that we get confused all the time I've 
met him and um he's a Charming guy he's a lovely

0:45:27.240,0:45:34.560
Guy and um he he's done incredibly well and he's 
a lot more uh famous uh quote unquote well-known

0:45:34.560,0:45:41.200
than I am and uh but he deserves all of his 
success okay and what was your favorite task on

0:45:41.200,0:45:52.080
The Apprentice and why we had one at a farm show 
the uh bath West Farm Show and I sold 11 hot tubs

0:45:52.080,0:45:58.480
and it was my favorite task because I did well 
and we won but but I just loved the selling and I

0:45:58.480,0:46:04.160
loved being out in the public um selling to people 
and it felt like when you're trapped in that house

0:46:04.160,0:46:10.360
with the same people I felt like I was getting a 
bit of like um like a bit of like being in jail

0:46:10.360,0:46:14.800
you know like I felt like I was trapped almost 
like you said before and when I was out at the

0:46:14.800,0:46:20.040
farm show selling with the public I kind of felt 
like I was normal again like I was like part of

0:46:20.040,0:46:25.560
the people again and there was there was something 
nice to that as well okay last question how much

0:46:25.560,0:46:34.040
time do you really get to get ready in the 
mornings people love this why is this can I ask

0:46:34.040,0:46:39.680
you because this is the out of all the questions 
I get asked the two biggest questions are what's

0:46:39.680,0:46:45.360
Alan sugar like yes and when the phone rings do we 
really have 20 minutes to I must have been asked

0:46:45.360,0:46:53.000
this $1,000 they want to know loads of people yeah 
and I as you will know it's true yeah you don't I

0:46:53.000,0:46:58.280
mean obviously because I couldn't sleep so I I 
was like next to I slept next to the window so

0:46:58.280,0:47:03.080
I could hear them sneaking by and parking their 
little cars and I knew I knew they were on their

0:47:03.080,0:47:09.560
way so I was kind of like mentally I was mentally 
prepared for them anyway so sort of yeah but it is

0:47:09.560,0:47:17.080
really short isn't it it's just so really really 
short and it's really really early like 400 a.m.

0:47:17.080,0:47:24.840
in the morning I just remember it being so early 
and uh but like I said I loved every minute of it

0:47:24.840,0:47:30.800
brilliant mark thank you so much much for coming 
on this podcast like you've been absolutely

0:47:30.800,0:47:37.760
amazing thank you for your honesty like it's been 
super interesting thank you thank you for your

0:47:37.760,0:47:42.880
tough questions and inviting me on it's been a 
pleasure to be with you and here my LinkedIn posts

0:47:42.880,0:47:48.160
read out loud that's the first time that's ever 
happened but I I I wish you every success I know

0:47:48.160,0:47:56.960
it's going to be a great podcast and thanks again 
for having me on thank you and likewise [Music]

0:47:56.960,0:47:57.600
he